Summoner 6.0 Rework (my reimagining)

[P0W3RK1D]

Kinda after hearing of how "summoner was hitting a breaking point" especially with its egi system, i just decided to think of a rework of sorts for summoner.
my mind was focused on making summoner feel more like an eikon weilding god-summoner, rather than a mini pokemon-traininer (which i feel should really be archanists thing)
the main focus would be on how summons would work

in my mind, Summons are no longer the EGIS you knw, but rather half/sized sumons (like bahamut or pheonix summon) that cause party-wide, or enemy wide damage, debuffs and effects.
When the summon is activated it will come in using its main spell, and when its summoned it will stay on the field for 10 additional seconds, to cast additional spells and attacks with some of the summoners cooldowns.
THe summoner can have only 1 summon active at a time <--- unless Inkindled spirit is active.
Summons consume an aether flow charge when summoned (max 10 aether flow charges can be held at once), the summoner can gain aether flow over time by attacking an enemy, or simply by using aether flow.
Big summons (such as Bahamut, pheonix and Odin consume 2-3 aether flow charges when summoned, whereas as most all other summons consume only 1)

Summon main Spell casted (when first summoned)
Summon Carbuncle - Casts reflect on all allies
Summon Titan - Damages all nearby enemies with earth damage and casts a powerful earthen armor onto the summoner.
Summon SHiva - Damages all nearby enemies with ice damage (has 30% chance to freeze enemies)
Summon Ifrit - Damages single target enemy summoner has targeted (applies pyretic DoT to enemies hit for duration that ifrit is out)
Summon Gardua - Damages all enemies with wind damage, centered on the summoners target (knocks all enemies away from the targeted enemy)
Summon Ramuah - Shocks targeted enemy with lighting damage, chaning to the 3 closest enemies, dealing reduced damage for subsequent enemies hit (has 30% chance to cause paralysis)
Summon Seraph - Grants all party members a small heal, and hp regeneration 10 yalms around Seraph for the 10 seconds its summoned
Summon Alexander - Deals Holy damage to enemies around target (has 20% chance to cast Stop on all nearby enemies)
Summon Fenrir - Casts illusary image on all nearby allies (grants them the ability to let their illusion immage take the next attack they are hit with)
Summon Bahamut - Once summoned attacks with megaflare at target along with the summoner's attacks. (Use special buttion) to cast Ultima on all nearby enemies, and end the bahamut summon.
Summon Pheonix - (passive casts regeneration on all allies and attacks with Summoner's spells. (use special butttion to cast one 30 second Reraise to all nearby allies. (This instantly raises all nearby dead allies, and places A ward on living allies that instantly raises an ally should they die within that 30 seconds)
Summon Odin - (passive grants haste to summoner, and a 30% chance that his next spell will double cast for the next 10 seconds while odin is on the field) Once summoned attacks target along with the summoner's attacks (use special buttion) To attack all enemies in a straight line with Zetsuken (has 50% chance to instakill enemies not immune to death.) and end odin summon

Other abilities
Insistant Trance - Extends the current summon's summon time by 10 seconds (this ability has 3 charges)
Inkindled Spirit - grants a buff to the summoner allowing for 2-3 summons to be active and on the the field simultaniously.
Posession Trance - (consumes 1 aether charge, and consumes the last evoked summon. The Summoner will enter a trance. While in this trance he will not be able to summon anything else until the trance is over, however while in this trance the Summoner will be able to cast more enhanced versions of the abilities of the consumed Summon. The summon after being consumed will not be able to be resummoned for 1 minute after the trance is over.
Aether-reach Summon - Summons a random aquired Summon to the field without consuming an aethercharge or cooldown, the summon activates its main move, and then quickly dissapears rather than staying for an extra 10 seconds (this can be used when a summon is already active on the field). the more powerfull summons have a smaller chance to appear. There is a small chance that a useless bunny rabbit will be summoned, wasting the cooldown the the spell.


This is all kinda just theory crafting of what i personally would like to see, but hopefully SE has a better idea, and does both of the summon classes good in 6.0

[Exodus-E]

in my mind, Summons are no longer the EGIS you knw, but rather half/sized sumons (like bahamut or pheonix summon)

Here we go again...

First of all, Egis are an intrinsic part of SMN's identity, and have been from the very start (through lore/quests and supplemental material).
What you propose would be akin to removing the cards from AST or the faeries from SCH.
So that's NOT changing.

Secondly, we already do have Trances/Demi-Summons for what you'd call "half-sized summons".
Hell, Firebird Trance/Demi-Phoenix already has an "exclusive" HoT buff when summoned, so there's that.

And third (and most importantly), your "rework" would severely limit the amount of summons we would get, as opposed to what the Egi glamour system could potentially give us (if they ever get around implementing more, that is).

So all in all, I completely disagree with your "re-imagining".

EDIT:
Also, Seraph and Fenrir are not Primals.
And considering how SMN (the Allagan job) was conceived as an "anti-Primal" discipline (by using the Primals' powers/essences against them), it wouldn't be able to "summon" them at all.

[P0W3RK1D]

First of all, Egis are an intrinsic part of SMN's identity, and have been from the very start (through lore/quests and supplemental material).

You would have a point there....if SE wasnt seemly stripping healers, and a few of the dps such as bard of their identity, as of current identity matters, but it seems to not be a focus for the team since whatever just gets melded into a class, wether it fits the tradittional role of that class or not (again, bard is a fine example of this)

What you propose would be akin to removing the cards from AST or the faeries from SCH.
So that's NOT changing.

No, what i propose would be akin to upgrading most/every summon from the dog sized Egis to Traditionally (like every other final fantasy game with a summoner) sized BIG BOI summons. adds far more form and function with every summon, not to mention looks.

Secondly, we already do have Trances/Demi-Summons for what you'd call "half-sized summons".
Hell, Firebird Trance/Demi-Phoenix already has an "exclusive" HoT buff when summoned, so there's that.

My trance plays a bit differently, its more of a "takeover" than a small phase, and your able to do it with any of the Summons rather than having it locked into a rotation with only 2 options...well, 1 if you consider its Bahamut trance first then pheonix in that order only.

And third (and most importantly), your "rework" would severely limit the amount of summons we would get

On the contrary my friend this would expand the amount of summons, as it could be any primal we have fought thus far (a lot), and no one said they couldnt be glamoured with a bit of thought into design

, as opposed to what the Egi glamour system could potentially give us (if they ever get around implementing more, that is)

.I wouldnt hold your breath on that one fam, its been years and we still dont even have a ramuh egi, not even a glam for it.

[Mikey_R]

First, lets go through the summons;

Carbuncle, either useless or completely overpowered. If it reflects nothing, useless, if it reflects all magic damage, then you are suddenly taking zero damage and doing damage to the boss. However, would it also reflect beneficial spells like heals? probably not, but if you can completely nullify a mechanic, that is broken.

Titan, AoE damage, ok, but just buffing the summoner? Not really helpful. Might see use if it buffed the whole party, but just the summoner? nope.

Shiva, freezing, assuming it would only work on trash packs, I still don't see the benefit. With proper tanking/healing, big pulls are really easy anyway and for something like this, your potency will be taking a hit, making it not worth it.

Ifrit, single target damage, simple, about the only one without some sort of dumb gimmick.

Garuda, AoE, with a knockback. Guess you hate being efficient when using AoEs. Knocking things out of range is the worst thing you can do. Just look back at HW machinist to see how annoying it is.

Ramuh, pseudo AoE. It's going to do less damage than a focused single target attack and it doesn't hit enough enemies to be useful in trash packs. Also, 30% chance to paralyse 3 enemies, which might or might not prevent damage compared to Shiva's 30% chance to freeze everything in the pack, completely preventing any damage that the mob can do. Not balanced at all.

Seraph, this is Summoner, not Scholar. If you aren't doing damage, you are useless, which is exactly what this summon is on summoner.

Alexander, again, AoE, but for some reason, this is only a 20% chance to prevent all damage when Shiva is 30%.

Fenrir, doesn't do damage, no good. I should clarify that, whilst Carbuncle can potentially do no damage, it does have the potential when timed properly, hence why it isn't completely useless.

Bahamut, basically, what we have now. Also, Summoner would never get Ultima. For story reasons, I can see no jobs getting ultima, however, if one DID get Ultima, it would be Black Mage.

Phoenix, attacks, heals AND raises EVERYONE in the area? WITH an Auto-Raise attached? Either this would be completely broken, or the damage is going to be so low, it wouldn't be used in normal play. Even if you use it to 'save' a wipe, it completely negates any sort of proper resource cost to mass revive everyone. Bear in mind, the only thing that can mass res is Healer LB3, HEALER LB3.

Odin, This seems to be the one that would be used the most. It is just pure damage with other benefits to the summoner.

Going to your Aetherflow, you want a stack of 10, which is gained over time, in some way. Assuming you want a summon out every 10 seconds, you will gain at least 1 flow per 10 seconds, tha tisn't the bit I had the issue with. The bit I had the issue with was, yo ucan gain Aetherflow by using Aetherflow. That is the same as saying, Monk gets a Chakra when using Forbidden Chakra, or Black Mage gaining a Polyglot stack when using Foul/Xenoglossy. It isn't really a resource spender if you don't give up a resource.

As for 'Big Summons' costing more, ok, but would it be worth it? You would have to weigh up the damage potential of the summons per unit of resource used and the one that has the highest damage per unit of resource will be the one that is used. Sure, you can have a cooldown on each summon, but at the end of the day, you have 12 summons. How many of them do you envision to be used for your single target rotation?

Also, Insistent Trance, only going to be used on the highest damaging summon, for obvious reasons.

Inkindeled Spirit, If you want to completely block the screen for everyone, sure but again, strongest summons only, or, if they happen to be on cooldown, you just go down the list, assuming they even have a cooldown.

Possession Trance, this is just allowing you to a period where you don't have to worry about summons. There will be a best one, that will be the only one used (one for single target and one for AoE). This text also implies summons won't have any sort of cooldown naturally, so you could literally just continue to summon the summon over and over. This then has you weigh the cost of the summon compared to the trance and whether the trance is worth it considering you will also have to summon other, weaker summons for that 1 minute period.

Aether-rich Summon. Noone likes RNG, especially if it is between a strong single target attack or a weak AoE. The damage variance would be too high and people will complain about it.

Overall, there has been zero thought about this at all except, I want ALL the summons. OK, you can have the summons, but how are you going to make them useful? Why should I care about Seraph when I can summon Odin or Bahamut. here is no plan here, it is just stuff put together with no concern as to how it would function in combat at all.

[Truen]

With the way things are going in this game regarding homogenization and the general dumbing down of job designs, nothing is off the cutting board.

[Exodus-E]

You would have a point there....if SE wasnt seemly stripping healers, and a few of the dps such as bard of their identity, as of current identity matters, but it seems to not be a focus for the team since whatever just gets melded into a class, wether it fits the tradittional role of that class or not (again, bard is a fine example of this)

No, they didn't.

• AST still relies on cards as its main mechanic.
• SCH still relies on faeries as its main mechanic.
• BRD still relies on songs as its main mechanic.

And speaking of BRD, and while it did receive a major rework back in 4.0, it still focuses on its songs (even if they work differently).
Hell, it even kept the same songs it originally had (minus Foe's Requiem), so its identity is very much intact.

No, what i propose would be akin to upgrading most/every summon from the dog sized Egis to Traditionally (like every other final fantasy game with a summoner) sized BIG BOI summons. adds far more form and function with every summon, not to mention looks.

Subjective.
Also, FF11 didn't have "big" summons either (although they did look better than Egis).

On the contrary my friend this would expand the amount of summons, as it could be any primal we have fought thus far (a lot), and no one said they couldnt be glamoured with a bit of thought into design

If that's the case, then you certainly didn't mention it throughout your original post.

I wouldnt hold your breath on that one fam, its been years and we still dont even have a ramuh egi, not even a glam for it.

While that's true, MrHappy's recent (e-mail) interview suggested that Egi glamours would still be a thing, rather than being outright scrapped.
So yes, I definitely am holding my breath on that one until they state otherwise.

Snip.

THANK YOU.
That's the one thing I missed on my original post: throwing class/job balance right out of the window.
Maybe it would've worked if SMN was a "Limited" job instead, but since it's a regular one...yeah, no.

[Mikey_R]

THANK YOU.
That's the one thing I missed on my original post: throwing class/job balance right out of the window.
Maybe it would've worked if SMN was a "Limited" job instead, but since it's a regular one...yeah, no.

Not going to lie, that exact thought was going through my mind as I was typing that post. There is alot of utility, perfect for a foundation for a limited job.

[Shurrikhan]

Maybe it would've worked if SMN was a "Limited" job instead, but since it's a regular one...yeah, no.

It would of worked if it were just... classified as something inherently broken/excluded/imbalanced/half-as*ed. Okay.

[P0W3RK1D]

[QUOTE]

No, they didn't.

• AST still relies on cards as its main mechanic.
• SCH still relies on faeries as its main mechanic.
• BRD still relies on songs as its main mechanic.

And speaking of BRD, and while it did receive a major rework back in 4.0, it still focuses on its songs (even if they work differently).
Hell, it even kept the same songs it originally had (minus Foe's Requiem), so its identity is very much intact.

Sorry bro I got to knit pick that one right there for a bit ^

I play almost exclusively healer role
True, AST still uses "cards" but the cards have been stripped of what the class identity was about, which is bacially reading fate, and bending it to your benifit, thats why post shadowbringgers had an rng card system that felt like it did something. Now we get Balance, but its every single card, there is no longer any choice, no longer any fate to bend. Not to mention, AST also had TIME MAGIC which SE all but completely did away with, that was part of AST identity, and its been robbed.

SCH - out of all the healers, I main this class, and i can tell you from experience that sch uses faries, and its even part of its core identity, but its main mechnaic of control and differention has been severly reduced, and even the war-tatician and weakness identifyer part of sch's identity has been a bit... ignored., and with each expansion as SCH looses more and more control, and even more of its spells the class dwindels on an idenity crisis, if its not their already

And bard...you cannot tell me that that class's "songs" are what identify that class. That class is not a BARD, that is a RANGER that was forced to take piano class in highschool. Even its Traits tell the story perfectly, NONE of them have to do with song, music, or even increasing the songs you have, its all about the next arrow shot, and i can guarentee, if SE changed the skins of the songs today to something more nature or animal like, and changed BRD (bard) to RGR (Ranger), the class would make total sense. Bard as it is now has little in the way of music, or what a final fantasy bard actually is and plays like.

[Exodus-E]

It would of worked if it were just... classified as something inherently broken/excluded/imbalanced/half-as*ed. Okay.

"Broken" and "imbalanced" perfectly describe BLU (as well as the whole concept behind "Limited job").
That's exactly why they're "excluded" from DF's match-making, as well as certain content.

"Half-as*ed" though?
Objectively wrong.
Especially with the latest spells they've introduced.

True, AST still uses "cards" but the cards have been stripped of what the class identity was about, which is bacially reading fate, and bending it to your benifit, thats why post shadowbringgers had an rng card system that felt like it did something. Now we get Balance, but its every single card, there is no longer any choice, no longer any fate to bend. Not to mention, AST also had TIME MAGIC which SE all but completely did away with, that was part of AST identity, and its been robbed.

And yet, the fact that it still uses cards for "reading and influencing fate" still remains.
Even if the cards themselves have been "stripped" (or rather "optimized", considering 90% of the time people favored the old Balance), its identity as presented in its lore/quest-line is definitely intact.

And bard...you cannot tell me that that class's "songs" are what identify that class. That class is not a BARD, that is a RANGER that was forced to take piano class in highschool. Even its Traits tell the story perfectly, NONE of them have to do with song, music, or even increasing the songs you have, its all about the next arrow shot, and i can guarentee, if SE changed the skins of the songs today to something more nature or animal like, and changed BRD (bard) to RGR (Ranger), the class would make total sense. Bard as it is now has little in the way of music, or what a final fantasy bard actually is and plays like.

Yes they do.
Exactly as presented in FF14's universe ever since Legacy (1.0):
Bards are expert archers that have the power to fortify both themselves and their allies through (magical) songs.

The bottom line in all of this is that what you proposed earlier would be completely changing the established lore for not only the job itself (that we've had since the very start) but also the rules/foundations this game works on.