Melee Shield Healer Idea

[Almagnus1]

They’d have to change how the base stats functions for a specific class which I don’t see them doing. However have a melee mage or two might help the casters get morE gear designs that would fit the redmage. I mean they are not exactly robed magic users.

Given https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/redmage/ please explain how most of the actions of this theoretical job would be different from how Riposte, Corps-a-corps, Zwerchhau, Displacement, Redoublement, and Reprise work in RDM.

Also WHM has already set precedent with Assize that a skill can do both healing and damage at the same time.

[Feidam]

Given https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/redmage/ please explain how most of the actions of this theoretical job would be different from how Riposte, Corps-a-corps, Zwerchhau, Displacement, Redoublement, and Reprise work in RDM.

Also WHM has already set precedent with Assize that a skill can do both healing and damage at the same time.

You are right. I forgot they already fixed that. As as for whm I would love to see them take the assize theme and turn that into the whm identity. Dps/heals combo skills beyond just assize. Though that could be OP.

[Kazukiyashuo]

I'd like to play a melee oriented healer (where all of my skills are melee range except for a couple of single target heals), but what makes it distinct from the other healers is that where most of the skills are do some amount of damage but then have a secondary effect (maybe determined by stance?) that's a DoT, HoT, Shield, or a buff/debuff.

Maybe call it a templar as it's mechanically similar to a paladin?

Seems like it could possibly be interesting, especially since it's going to want to stay in melee range and that fits in well with the GOTTAGOFAST instance meta we seem to have.

Thoughts?

Yeah melee healer. I would also a ranged tank

[Shurrikhan]

I'd like to play a melee oriented healer (where all of my skills are melee range except for a couple of single target heals), but what makes it distinct from the other healers is that where most of the skills are do some amount of damage but then have a secondary effect (maybe determined by stance?) that's a DoT, HoT, Shield, or a buff/debuff.

Maybe call it a templar as it's mechanically similar to a paladin?

As long as it isn't intending to be Just-Another-WHM-Plus-Minor-Gimmick, sure, I could get behind a Brigitte/Holy Paladin melee-range healer.

There are some obvious concerns there, though, such as dependence on at least the option of a 3-Ranged DPS comp in many a fight, since it'd be taking up a melee spot.

Nearly all difficult fights are designed with healers treated as ranged casters. There's a lot of design precedence to roll back there.

As above, it'd really just be a matter of giving this healer 2 or 3 consecutive GCDs of solid melee-downtime (ranged abilities) functionality per 45s or so. In what few fights require more than that, you just take an extra ranged dps over a melee one to compensate. Anything hard enough that you can't just suck it up and wait out a global or three of true downtime while doing assigned ranged mechanics is pretty much going to require premades anyways.

They’d have to change how the base stats functions for a specific class which I don’t see them doing.

No, they really wouldn't.

I'm striking you with melee slashes. Guess what stat they use? Yep, intelligence. (RDM)

[Shurrikhan]

I still fail to see what that accomplishes that just having the job start from new can't.

Facilitated player access to roles/capacities while following desired themes and, more importantly, less job theme occlusion.

Want a Marksman job? Sorry, we've already got Machinist, even though it has increasingly little to do with gun usage.

Want a Ranger job? No can do... already have our bow-wielding job.

[Garten]

Facilitated player access to roles/capacities while following desired themes and, more importantly, less job theme occlusion.

Want a Marksman job? Sorry, we've already got Machinist, even though it has increasingly little to do with gun usage.

Want a Ranger job? No can do... already have our bow-wielding job.

That was always my concern too.. It seems that people always wants something or the contrary of something, while we could sometimes have both.
I mean, a friend of mine really would love a bow job but HATES BRD, and he knows that he will never get it because it would step on Bard toes (even with using another weapon like a crossbow), even people here on the forum aknowledge that the 2 Jobs "would be too similar".

Same thing for:
Gunner- there Is already MCH (also, lol since it is more a gadgeteer, this also is a general opinion)
A paladin healer version- there Is already PLD
A time mage - AST has already some time magic flavor
Geomancer- WHM under level 70 already uses its elements

As already stated in MANY other posts across the years, Ranger could UNLOCK (or split) from archer at level 30, Geomancer (dps) from conjurer at level 30 and so on.
The different between this and NEW JOBS would be that they would share some skills and playstyle.
I know that it would never happens, because "SE SAID SO" (Even if it would not be the first time that SE, or Yoshi says something just to throw it in the garbage later, like the fact that personal houses would have never been demolished for example), what i find infuriating is the mindset that this and other things would be fisically impossible for SE to do..

Another idea that somebody trhowed on the forum, was something on the line of "jobs reskins", again in the example of bard, you could create 2 skins that plays exactly the same but with different animations, one musically themed and one arrows themed.

All of these above would not substitute the developments of "really new" jobs, but could go on par with it. Creating more "personalization options" across the board, so in the end we would have, instead of 18 jobs, dunno.., 36 jobs.. and 18 different playstyles..

--"bUT dUUUUUDE, wHy WAste developERs TiME and money THat could go on OThERR STuff?"
--"Dunno?? Maybe it would be fun? It would attract a lot of more people into the game? It would increase appeal to other Final fantasy fans or even other gamers that still dont have theyr dream job in the game?"

The fact that the ACN/SCH/SUM stuff is so demonized, even from SE itself, is mindblowing to me. I am around since 2.0 and i always found really FUN that SCH and SUM shared some mechanics, like the dot spread stuff, STILL retaining in my opinion theyr job identities. People throw around the "The class split is difficult to balance" flag. But is it really the truth? Is it really THAT difficult to balance the first 30 levels (or more ) of skills sharing?

Another fitting exemple is MCH: a person here in the forum once said that "corsair class" (of wich we still have some remnants underground the Marauder guild in limsa), would have no sense since you could just count the first 30 levels of MCH as "corsair". I went and look at the JOB and he was right: The first 30 level skills of MCH are all (or almost all cant remember right now) gun based skills, WHILE AFTER 30 are all gadget things. Why could we not "split" (use another verb if you dont like this) mch at level 30 and create another class that has the same first 30 levels foundation and build with more gun skills, creating a real Gunner?

In my opinion (ad i dont think you can change my mind on this), sharing base classes, or create classes reskin would:

-Create A LOT more jobs with less general work involved;
-Create "parental" relationships on different jobs. This imho would be fun on the lore and job mechanical side.

I repeat, just in case i was not clear: i am not saying that you'll never have to do new tipes of gameplays (like it is now when you add a new job), i am saying that you could ALSO once in a while add a BRANCH job or a resking job, when said job would be too much tematically similar to another already existing.

When i see how this ideas just get attacked ISTANT with no mercy makes me think that nowadays people just lacks imaginative ways to do things and resolve problems, or to think outside roles and boxes (boohhhh a meleee healer, call the police!!!!).

Edit: text limit and grammar

[Aluja89]

Another fitting exemple is MCH: a person here in the forum once said that "corsair class" (of wich we still have some remnants underground the Marauder guild in limsa), would have no sense since you could just count the first 30 levels of MCH as "corsair". I went and look at the JOB and he was right: The first 30 level skills of MCH are all (or almost all cant remember right now) gun based skills, WHILE AFTER 30 are all gadget things. Why could we not "split" (use another verb if you dont like this) mch at level 30 and create another class that has the same first 30 levels foundation and build with more gun skills, creating a real Gunner?

Machinist is a bit of a stretch since it's an expansion job but you could look at the current Monk and it has quite a few mitigation tools, it was obvious that it was supposed to branch into a tank.

I just thought it might be an easy way for the devs to appease every role come expansion if their limit is just 2 jobs with one being a branch.

[Shurrikhan]

Machinist is a bit of a stretch since it's an expansion job but you could look at the current Monk and it has quite a few mitigation tools, it was obvious that it was supposed to branch into a tank.

Well... yes and no.

At the time of the original jobs, each had significantly more versatility (though Monk, as something of a trademark, had a bit more than most), and no two jobs held quite the same role-niche. Warrior and Paladin were both tanks, certainly, but in some cases diametrically opposed. Gladiator, and thus Paladin, had significant tools for threat-transfer, dealing with tankbusters, etc., while Marauder was more about snap threat itself, building to consistently high HP, and some self-sustain. The original (1.x) Monk played a bit of a supportive melee role, between being able to snap-tank temporarily even as a dps, support party healing, or kite mobs. Lancer/Dragoon, meanwhile, was something of a half-tank or strike-leader, with both saboteur skills that could adjust the pacing of enemy attacks by sapping their (generative, or builder/spender, at the time) TP and raid-healing through Life Surge being a Bloodbath style debuff that'd apply to all raid attacks against the given target. Thaumaturge was more Oracle than Black Mage, with significant debuffing and HP-transfer, opposite the elemental Conjurer. Etc., etc.

Back then the goal wasn't to have each job potentially branch into multiple roles as for roles to be very much secondary to jobs, which were each their own thing.