Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Raelsar]

I get that was your experience but for me the most part everyone was chill sure I ran into the asshole every so often though to say everything was a knife edge. If that was your common occurrence then one should examine why it happened so often.

Not to undermine your experience everyone probably has a different experience though I do think it is disingenuous to say everything was at a knfies edge.

There's many factors that could be at play there: faction, server, if you're doing it in a guild group, pick-up group, or random group, and sometimes just plain luck (good on your end, bad on mine). Another possibility is that the caustic behaviour of WoW has become so normalized that many of its players simply fail to recognize that their behaviour is considered problematic in nearly any other setting -- such as in FFXIV. Still, the "common wisdom" for WoW is avoid random groups and pick-up groups for a reason, which is most of where I encountered the issues. I should stress that I was a bystander in nearly all incidents, no one ever really complained about what I was doing; that doesn't mean I like to see one player berate another in my group, it dragged down my own experience just as much as their's.

Nevertheless, the current stance of Yoshi-P and Square Enix (as outlined in my previous post) is that they consider calling out players for poor performance harassment. They have explicitly stated that they will NEVER add in an "official parser" as it enables a certain group of players to misuse them and bother others; and once the cat's out of the bag, there's no going back. Based on my experience and observations in WoW, I agree with this position; after all, it's one of the big reasons I stopped doing group content in that game LONG before I left it completely, it simply wasn't worth putting up with those players.

So it doesn't really matter if you can convince me that parsers will be a net-positive for the game or not.
The once you have to get through to are Yoshi-P and Square Enix.

[TaleraRistain]

Okay pro-parser crew, real talk.

How would anything change in game for you if they implemented an official parser? Not a personal one. A full, official parser like so many are asking for.

If you already kick people you think aren't playing right, then what is this going to give you in game that you don't have now?

[Caurcas]

Okay pro-parser crew, real talk.

How would anything change in game for you if they implemented an official parser? Not a personal one. A full, official parser like so many are asking for.

If you already kick people you think aren't playing right, then what is this going to give you in game that you don't have now?

Transparency. While harassment policies would still be in the place, and both the offended and the offender can see what the issue is.

[TaleraRistain]

Transparency. While harassment policies would still be in the place, and both the offended and the offender can see what the issue is.

And what would change in the experience? You'd still kick someone, right? You'd still not be able to say anything to them.

What does it matter if they can see? The key element there is that they have to give a damn about what they see. So what is really going to change?

[Caurcas]

And what would change in the experience? You'd still kick someone, right? You'd still not be able to say anything to them.

What does it matter if they can see? The key element there is that they have to give a damn about what they see. So what is really going to change?

Why does it matter that is stays hidden? Oh, that's right it protects the ego. Maybe if information were transparent, these egos would learn how to check said ego for the better because they would not have a foot to stand on.

[Awha]

There's many factors that could be at play there: faction, server, if you're doing it in a guild group, pick-up group, or random group, and sometimes just plain luck (good on your end, bad on mine). Another possibility is that the caustic behaviour of WoW has become so normalized that many of its players simply fail to recognize that their behaviour is considered problematic in nearly any other setting -- such as in FFXIV. Still, the "common wisdom" for WoW is avoid random groups and pick-up groups for a reason, which is most of where I encountered the issues. I should stress that I was a bystander in nearly all incidents, no one ever really complained about what I was doing; that doesn't mean I like to see one player berate another in my group, it dragged down my own experience just as much as their's.

Nevertheless, the current stance of Yoshi-P and Square Enix (as outlined in my previous post) is that they consider calling out players for poor performance harassment. They have explicitly stated that they will NEVER add in an "official parser" as it enables a certain group of players to misuse them and bother others; and once the cat's out of the bag, there's no going back. Based on my experience and observations in WoW, I agree with this position; after all, it's one of the big reasons I stopped doing group content in that game LONG before I left it completely, it simply wasn't worth putting up with those players.

So it doesn't really matter if you can convince me that parsers will be a net-positive for the game or not.
The once you have to get through to are Yoshi-P and Square Enix.

You are mistaken man, I know we will never get official parsers, I have stated this much many times. That said I still think it is disingenuous to claim ones personal experience accounts for everyone that played. I get you had a negative experience, and I respect that though you failed to mentioned another reason maybe you were just objectively bad number wise for someone of your class, spec, and or ilvl. I get you feel that is harassment, and I get that. Though I am still a firm believer that if someone runs into an action on a frequent bases then it is time they look inwards instead of out.

Like I know I use the vote kick feature more then most, and I know it is not because I simply run into sub-par players more frequently it has more so to do with the fact I am an asshole. Once again do not get me wrong I understand the potential for harm exists and SE is taking a rather be safe then sorry approach, overall I do not agree but I get that is their choice.

That being said I do have a genuine question for those in this thread that seem to be against calling people out or removing players that are not causing a massive detriment to the group, was going to post this in the vent thread but got me thinking.

I landed in a Doma Castle run, my friend was healing (ast) and I was tanking, we had a Sam and a MCH DPS. My friend was feeding me cards, and the Sam spoke up and asked why were they not giving them any cards. The cited that Sam is a selfish DPS and they do the most damage and should get the cards to be more efficient and to speed things up. Though they were doing less then the damage even on single target.

Though the MCH did offer some tips and the Sam took the standard things are dying and still truly did believe they were doing the most damage just due to the class they were playing. Now this run was by no means slow, had no need to adjust the size of pulls everything was dying in a timely manner, but once I five min point hit we kicked the Sam, and unfortunately probably this man will think because he plays Sam and it is listed as a selfish dps and the community states melee dps will always be higher then ranged physical their words btw they will probably forever be like this.

When just one wave of the logs could have objectively shown they were doing it wrong instead of them telling my friend to learn to play and defending their free style Sam action. I will say Sam that ignore positional do trigger the shit out of me.

So out of curiosity would calling this person out for their damage really be considered harassment? Especially since some Rae feels that calling someone out for their damage is harassment full stop. The Sam in question never mentioned others personal damage just the fact that Sam in general does not damage then the other roles in the group.

[TaleraRistain]

Why does it matter that is stays hidden? Oh, that's right it protects the ego. Maybe if information transparent, these egos would learn how to check said ego for the better because they would not have a foot to stand on.

Sure they would. They can just turn it off.

[WoW]

There seem to be some people that are under this delusion that if casual players could see their dps it would make them better. Under this theory I should be able to login into WoW or any MMO that allows dps meters and be playing dungeons/raids with all orange parsing gamer gods.

What MMO have you people played where having a dps meter made casual players magically better?

Makes you better =/= Makes you a top tier player. It only means you improve relative to your current performance level. Because if you're playing like literal trash in this game, the fix is easy with how watered down the jobs are now.

[spf1200]

Why has this thread gotten so big? This is never going to happen and never should. YoshiP has said they have no interest in it cause it will just lead to harassment and he is right.

[linayar]

This game already allows players to kick others due to "difference in playstyles"

Actually, are you sure about that?

Anyway, I think a big thing here is though.. players aren't actually being "harassed", at least not at the level some might say.

That goes both ways and what I was talking about regarding complaints about "griefers." Not everyone is intentionally playing a certain way to grief someone else.

Many take any sort of criticism - constructive specifically - or even suggestions as personal attacks, and I have stated as much many times before. There is a difference between actual harassment, and constructive criticism. One player asking another to use more than cure 1, or to actually use AoE shouldn't even be an issue here.

See, if you truly believe that, then you should stop saying that people should be silent in random group content. If you're giving constructive criticism and actually saying it in a neutral and constructive manner, then you shouldn't fear people reporting you for it, if they even do.

It should be common sense, but such a community has been harbored here. Any form of self improvement - even the mere suggestion of a personal parser - is seen as such by many, in my opinion.

I think that goes back to individual experiences as I've seen plenty of people giving advice, and I doubt most of them, if any, were reported.