Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

[YianKutku]

I can't wait until we're allowed to discuss this without spoiler blocks. I don't mind spoiler blocks in principle, but this forum software is kind of terrible at best.

MSQ stuff.

Did anyone else hear a roar right after Zenos monologue?

I did, but I was hoping someone else would be able to identify that roar, so I didn't mention it much. I only know it sounded like a standard roar with added high-pitched tones.

If it's a completely new roar, I'd meme-guess Lavos, but I assumed it was a re-used roar and someone would come in with "actually it's this Primal".

Come to think of it, given the roar happened after the conversation about drawing aether from the Dreamer, maybe that roar is the Dreamer and Zenos's claim that the Dreamer wouldn't mind is just him being callous?

Daddy…

…Leveilleur. I expected his appearance based on the way they worded matters when describing him. The Forum’s utter unwillingness to listen to Krile does suggest, IMO, that G’raha is right, and there is a reason that the island is not showing all its cards yet, rather than genuinely ignoring the problem. That reason being it has its own plan. I got the impression Fourchenault was cutting ties in order to protect his children (remembering back to the New Year greeting), since his position is derived from the Forum and one which he must act on whether he wills it or not. Also if he were to try convince his children to return and did so successfully, their meddlesome friends would soon follow, too, potentially frustrating their pans. With that said, maybe he wants them free to act, away from prying eyes.

I had been considering the "he's acting like a jerk to protect his children" possibility, but that still makes his actions deeply stupid, since everyone (or at least definitely G'raha) immediately recognizes the act as theatre. And everyone also agrees that we need to personally go to Sharlayan to confront the Forum, or at least get some non-Forum allies (with the understanding that it's going to be difficult, since all the important people are on the Forum).

So if Fourchenault intended his disowning to keep the twins away from danger, he obviously failed, in a way that makes me wonder if he's even familiar with his children.

Disowning also appears to be completely unnecessary. The twins no longer have the name of Leveilleur: apart from personal family concerns, why does this matter? Sharlayan is supposed to be a completely egalitarian democracy. A name should not have more weight than another. It's certainly plausible that this is what Sharlayan claims to be, and is not actually the case, but the sort of people who would not at least respect the illusion of egalitarianism would also not care that the twins are no longer related to Fourchenault.

If this is all due to having to follow Sharlayan politics, we should have had a chance to mention that Sharlayan politics is as trivial as what Sharlayan accuses the current conflict of being (ie another scuffle between Eorzea and the Garlean Empire). And we've already dealt with Sharlayan politics, by having blackmail material on a literal murderer on the Forum, meaning Sharlayan politics has already affected us, and we went "no, you listen".

Fourchenault's actions make no sense for any complex plots. That, and the prior comments that Alisaie takes after her father, makes me think that Fourchenault is actually kind of stupid, or at least impulsive enough to act and speak before thinking. So he might have thought he's being all Mastermind-y and clever, but in fact everyone saw right through it and the entire performance was pointless.

Had a thought about the Gridania scene

What if Fourchenault had ulterior motives for disowning the twins? Like doing it so they wouldn't get caught up in something Sharlayan is going to do, or wouldn't be restrained by family role and expectations, or something like that. Because he seemed genuinely happy to meet them at first, and the pivot to disowning them happened really fast. But if he was doing it for their own sakes, that'd be interesting.

If that is the case though, dude's an ass for not just telling them straight up why he was cutting them off. Don't put on such a show about it.

Yeah, as mentioned, he's done it in a way that evidently doesn't work, and never had a chance of working. Which is very strange for someone who is a member of the highest political body in Sharlayan.

The question that interests me more is why Fourchenault decided to put on that performance. As in why he chose to perform as such there and then. Who was he performing to? Was he being watched? If so, why was he being watched, when Sevestre could take a trip to Eorzea to personally attempt to assassinate us, while being afraid that this assassination trip would be revealed to the Forum? The first thought I had was that here, Fourchenault is representing the Forum on official business, and so at least some parts of the Sharlayan authorities felt that this warranted surveillance. From there, a whole host of other questions arise, like why Sharlayan felt Fourchenault could not be trusted on his own.

(I'm taking it as a given that the Lotus Stand is easily surveilled: it has no roof.)

[KageTokage]

Finished Zadnor.

Yet again, I find myself wondering why they even bothered with Mikoto's visions, because they amounted to a whole lot of nothing with her making it out of the situation unharmed.

I was surprised to see that the allagan weapon they had unearthed was based on Diablos of all things which means the Mhachi weren't the first ones to summon the guy.

I'm a touch curious as to how your decision about Misija's fate at the start of the quest actually affects the ending, though, as I chose that I felt she should be executed for her crimes. I'd assume she ends up sacrificing herself to save everyone regardless, but in the aftermath I was given the choice of choosing to execute her or refuse.

I chose the latter, which resulted in Bajsaljien doing the job instead...though I kind of doubt it would've changed either way and the "execution" was really more of a formality and an act of mercy as she was already dying.

As far as Gabranth goes, his continued lack of presence left me unsurprised when he ended up still at large seemingly with a nice big cliffhanger for when his story would continue sometime in 6.x...except if you read his field report afterward it claims that he ended up being assassinated by Lyon in an act of mutiny after he was held responsible for the IVth legion's loss at Bozja and the remainder of the legion basically collapsed, leaving matters neatly resolved off-screen.

An anti-climax if I've ever seen one and it almost makes me wonder if they had initially planned for more, but there was a change of plans for things in the 6.x cycle at some point.

[Vyrerus]

I can't wait until

Stuff and things and things and stuff

Unless he just wasn't acting, and he was driven by emotion. Cutting off their name in my opinion is more about cutting them off from the family fortune and the network that it employs. Mainly so the writers don't have to have it be a plot concern as to why the Twins don't flex on some connections. Now they can't. Back in Coil Alisaie pulled her strings. Enlisted Maelstrom. Twin Adders Officer. Immortal Flames guy. Not too mention her butler guys that help you go around looking for the final coil entrance.

I suppose it also kind of opens up the arena to show a divided estate. People loyal only to the money and name, but also those loyal to the Twins as people. Perhaps their mother as well, if she really is the picture of health as described by that callous scuzz bag.

I'm supposing that they say Alisaie is more like her father, because she kept her mouth shut vs. Alphinaud who was vocal and antithetical to Sharlayan's tradition of non-intervention in their Studium days. Beyond that, maybe he was a firebrand for traditionalism, hot blooded at one time. That doesn't seem to be the case now, as all he seems to be capable of is a snide glare.

Though it was chosen for its colors/look, I still find it interesting that he wears the Sharlayan Striking coat from Great Gubal HM, as well as the Shire Pankratist pants.

[YianKutku]

Stuff and things and things and stuff

Unless he just wasn't acting, and he was driven by emotion. Cutting off their name in my opinion is more about cutting them off from the family fortune and the network that it employs. Mainly so the writers don't have to have it be a plot concern as to why the Twins don't flex on some connections. Now they can't. Back in Coil Alisaie pulled her strings. Enlisted Maelstrom. Twin Adders Officer. Immortal Flames guy. Not too mention her butler guys that help you go around looking for the final coil entrance.

I suppose it also kind of opens up the arena to show a divided estate. People loyal only to the money and name, but also those loyal to the Twins as people. Perhaps their mother as well, if she really is the picture of health as described by that callous scuzz bag.

I'm supposing that they say Alisaie is more like her father, because she kept her mouth shut vs. Alphinaud who was vocal and antithetical to Sharlayan's tradition of non-intervention in their Studium days. Beyond that, maybe he was a firebrand for traditionalism, hot blooded at one time. That doesn't seem to be the case now, as all he seems to be capable of is a snide glare.

Though it was chosen for its colors/look, I still find it interesting that he wears the Sharlayan Striking coat from Great Gubal HM, as well as the Shire Pankratist pants.

Seriously, the forum software is terrible.

Fourchenault being more passionate than he lets on is an interesting viewpoint, since it also matches Alisaie's passion. Her yelling at Alphinaud in this patch, about "how could you let him just walk away like that", was basically the same as what she almost said in the short story about Louisoix leaving for Eorzea. Presumably she didn't actually say it out loud in the short story for dramatic narration's sake, but it's definitely in-character for her.

Therefore, Fourchenault being all dramatic "you are now no longer Leveilleurs" matches with an impulsive decision that he made before flouncing off. Which is interesting, because in the short story, he was trying to convince Louisoix to abandon Eorzea due to cool-headed political concerns, rather than Alisaie's straightforward "I will miss you and I don't want you to go". It would be fun to see if Fourchenault's actual personality was a hotheaded rash type, and he pretends to be coldly calculating only because he thinks it's expected of him.

Still, the whole disowning thing doesn't quite make sense from a broader perspective outside of immediate family concerns. As you said, there might be a divide between those who follow the twins out of personal loyalty and those who care only for the prestige of the name, but that again depends on the claim of Sharlayan being an egalitarian society. Those who believe in the egalitarian ideals won't care about the presence of the Leveilleur family name or not. Those who don't believe in egalitarianism (and who don't bother paying lip service to it) won't care that Fourchenault made a big on-the-spot declaration, especially if Ameliance still considers the twins her children. The only people who might be affected are the "family retainers" you mentioned, but I don't think they'd have a culture of "follow the family name", given Sharlayan society.

I was always under the impression that Alisaie relied on her family name (as much as she did; I'm fuzzy on the exact details) because she didn't bother making connections the usual way like Alphinaud did. Since the twins are working together now (as opposed to Alisaie's snit back in ARR, which she got over post-HW), this might not be as big a deal.

[EaraGrace]

To a degree, yes; there's some wiggle room to build the shadow of doubt. I can see a lot of ways to make it work, my trouble is that I don't see the writers actually building anything in those spaces which do make it work. (At least, not ones that are visible yet.)

Even in the Mitron / Gaia example, Mitron's first lines in that very story arc were "I am Mitron, servant of Zodiark." and as soon as Gaia remembers who she was she starts seething Darkness, gets a face-glyph, and has an (unused) recorded battle line in which she shrieks, "In Lord Zodiark's name!" so we know where some developer heads are at, lol.

Good point. I guess it ultimately comes down to

how Fandaniel is characterized. Is he Fandaniel the Ancient or Fandaniel the sundered mortal? Is he the culmination of the unsundereds failure when it comes interacting with their sundered “comrades,” or is he a unique anomaly motivated by his own goals.

Like you point out, we don’t have many other Ascians we can point to who we’re neither working directly under the unsundered nor did not act wholly dedicated to the plan for the rejoining.

Still something has to be going on. Unless Fandaniel is secretly, in some convoluted scheme, still serving Zodiark, its clear he’s an even greater threat to Zodiark than Hydaelyn or Venat. And unless I’m missing something, all we have of his existence before he began working with Zenos is a small, broken, memory contained in his soul crystal. And even that didn’t seem particularly noteworthy, but perhaps that’s the point?

One other thing on the “dreamer”

Perhaps others had already noticed this and I’m just blind, but after Zenos gives permission to take more aether from a source “closer to home,” Fandaniel turns around and, staring up at the tower, yells

The time has come to fulfill your hearts desire! My hearts desire! To relieve those wretched creatures of their meaningless existence!

My initial interpretation was that he was directing this statement to Zenos, but what if he wasn’t? The camera, Fandaniels direction, all seems focused on the tower. The dialogue in other languages also points to this. If all that is correct, then that does narrow down who it could be, as I don’t think many characters would wish to “relieve those wretched creatures of the meaningless existence.” Certainly couldn’t imagine it being Varis. Would an unsundered fit? Emets voice is the narrator in the trailer right?

[YianKutku]

In the same line as Emet-Selch breathed that absolute faith in Zodiark's is etched into the very souls of his summoners, he talks about how unrelated individuals can be raised to the offices, but that they tend not to be as trustworthy.

That's the real way to attack my starting point, I think: Fandaniel has no first-hand memories of the Final Days not just because he's a sundered risen with an archive of the Originals' memories instead of his own, but because he's not part of the real Fandaniel at all.

Fandaniel, probably: "I've only known the Unsundered for a day and a half, but if anything happened to them, I would kill everyone in this world and then myself."

[Vyrerus]

Seriously, the forum software is terrible.

Yeah, but on the brightside, at least I don't have to worry about nastygram PMs. (But on the flipside I can't PM anyone that I like )

I mean, even if Sharlayan is an egalitarian society, what is the price of loyalty? They still engage in commerce, and there's obviously a hierarchy, as I'm sure those 99 Forum seats are highly coveted and influential. While anyone may rise to them, and no one will be looked down on for their birth or name, I'm sure persuasion of the lucrative type greases all sorts of wheels still. Not saying that it's as bad as Ul'dah and the Syndicate or whatever, but like not everyone gets the water front property, if you catch my meaning.

I'm also remembering that they have arranged marriage, via the Astrologian questline, so it's entirely possible that Ameliance is in a loveless marriage and also not in command of the family fortune. Of course, this also means they step out of the bounds of egalitarinism again by having pedigree comparisons/selection for who marries who.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Bozja(sigh)

Was disappointed to see the new zone music was the same, but not surprised. Not a fan of the relics at all and they feel worse than the Eureka ones tbh. It feels like they’re all missing glows or something. Not a fan of them making the raid similar to castrum in terms of queuing...why even make DR different then. It was complaints that asked for a duty finder for these and then they just completely go back to the problem again. Leveling in the new zone is easy but insanely mind numbing. It got to a point i was just in zone 3 doing the same 4 skirmishes over and over. It felt like a literally cycle of hell. Overall the story was okay, hoping to see Gabranth in 6.0 but the content itself was very very dull.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Finished Zadnor.

Yet again, I find myself wondering why they even bothered with Mikoto's visions, because they amounted to a whole lot of nothing with her making it out of the situation unharmed.

I was surprised to see that the allagan weapon they had unearthed was based on Diablos of all things which means the Mhachi weren't the first ones to summon the guy.

I'm a touch curious as to how your decision about Misija's fate at the start of the quest actually affects the ending, though, as I chose that I felt she should be executed for her crimes. I'd assume she ends up sacrificing herself to save everyone regardless, but in the aftermath I was given the choice of choosing to execute her or refuse.

I chose the latter, which resulted in Bajsaljien doing the job instead...though I kind of doubt it would've changed either way and the "execution" was really more of a formality and an act of mercy as she was already dying.

As far as Gabranth goes, his continued lack of presence left me unsurprised when he ended up still at large seemingly with a nice big cliffhanger for when his story would continue sometime in 6.x...except if you read his field report afterward it claims that he ended up being assassinated by Lyon in an act of mutiny after he was held responsible for the IVth legion's loss at Bozja and the remainder of the legion basically collapsed, leaving matters neatly resolved off-screen.

An anti-climax if I've ever seen one and it almost makes me wonder if they had initially planned for more, but there was a change of plans for things in the 6.x cycle at some point.

please tell me you’re joking.

Did they really kill him offscreen? Seriously? I’m honestly getting tired of them introducing these major plot threads and then just cutting the content out completely and killing any hope for a future plot. It’s extremely lazy and just kills my mood for the entire story. I knew bozja was a mistake jesus...

[MrThinker]

please tell me you’re joking.

Did they really kill him offscreen? Seriously? I’m honestly getting tired of them introducing these major plot threads and then just cutting the content out completely and killing any hope for a future plot. It’s extremely lazy and just kills my mood for the entire story. I knew bozja was a mistake jesus...

Regarding that end

It's framed as if his death was actually faked.

And the reason for Lyon's mutiny makes no sense. When we last see them in game, Gabranth is basically like "Hey Lyon, take some of the heat man" and Lyon is all like "sure man no problemo". He shows no resentment for Noah's decision. Also I may have paraphrased a bit.

Also the record states that Lyon and other high ranking IVth legion officers, including one Sicinus mal Velletus, are still at large as war criminals, so they are still an unresolved thread.