Parsers add replayability for casual players

[ZedxKayn]

Why are you showing data if not:

1. To call out someone, which could be regarded as harassing them. Yes, even with just a readout that shows them that their numbers suck, as the intention is pretty clear and obvious, especially if you address them as well.
or 2. To brag, which, well, it's not a ToS violation I suppose but it is in bad taste when you're with strangers.

Literally look at my post he replied to. The answer is there.

[Lanadra]

Literally look at my post he replied to. The answer is there.

I see no answer there.

[ZedxKayn]

I see no answer there.

Self-defense...

[Penthea]

Insults are never justified, and how come having a in-game parser makes you free to say the words you want? You said: " so that they can be free to say the words they say here about the general playerbase directly to players they encounter in instances." not a single person here said anything that couldnt be said in an instance? If you say something general like "the player base is bad" which is general and then specify to a single individual "You are bad" then obviously you are crossing the line and that person you are adressing can report you if they feel offended. This is true now and would not change with in-game parse.

Well I was thinking of two threads when I wrote this post, this one and another about a similar subject both with a certain person who likes to assume anyone who isn't performing up to their standards is a leech, and refuses to understand that poor performance can happen for many reasons such as being rusty with the class, being tired after a long day, being distracted irl, latency, I could go on. You seem reasonable so I'm not going to school you on every possible reason. The problem is some people assume the absolute worst about someone below their standards and their comments go straight to harsh accusatory words. Right now we're not allowed to mention parser use in game, but if it became a feature of the game then of course that rule would change. And that rule change would invite comments directly about parse results and not everyone is reasonable about what they expect or polite when they want to point out a problem.

Yes players can report those who cross the line with their words but a report doesn't wipe away what happened. It doesn't remove how awful someone was made to feel. Prevention is better than cure and this appears to be the stance SE want to take.

I think parsers are excellent tools. My problem lies with how some people use them. I have too many times seen people use them as a tool to be needlessly horrible to others. As long as the community stays as it is the most I would be okay with is a personal parser that displays a grade and detailed information at the end of content that is only viewable by the player. That way players could examine their own performance without an egotistical meanspirited player making their mistakes seem like a far bigger problem than they actually are.

[Lanadra]

Self-defense...

Fair point. That did fly over my head admittedly. I still take issue with how Awha worded it nonetheless. Especially since in their response to me it amounts to another case of 'well I can get away with it if I do it juuuuust the right way'.

[Katie_Kitty]

Thats unfortunate but also true. YoshiP will always try to do what pleases the most people (rightfully doing so) if most ppl cant bear to know they are a burden (and rage or unsub) its better to have them blind . If people want to (officially) seek the truth about their performance, let them do it. If someone abuse you for it just report them,as abuses already happens for a dozen other reasons. I don't get it how that would be any different than today? If you are a bad player, ppl that care already know that. If they dont call you now fearing a report, with official parse they still wont call you out fearing a report. The only variable that changes is that you will also be aware that you are a bad player and we can't make ppl sad can we?

yeah pretty much there's never going to be an official parser and on the flipside square is never going to actively purge the ACT users because it makes more sense for them to have it both ways. They don't have to get rid of the people who parse, just make it so you get rid of them if/when they abuse others (which is the current policy). Similarly, they don't need to implement in-game parsers because third-party parsing software already exists and the people who want to use it already are.

There's no reason or benefit in them alienating either side, so they're going to straddle the fence for eternity (unless something truly forces their hand for some reason one day). No reason to ever do anything else.

[Lanadra]

yeah pretty much there's never going to be an official parser and on the flipside square is never going to actively purge the ACT users because it makes more sense for them to have it both ways. They don't have to get rid of the people who parse, just make it so you get rid of them if/when they abuse others (which is the current policy). Similarly, they don't need to implement in-game parsers because third-party parsing software already exists and the people who want to use it already are.

There's no reason or benefit in them alienating either side, so they're going to straddle the fence for eternity (unless something truly forces their hand for some reason one day). No reason to ever do anything else.

Pretty much as I said a bit earlier in the thread, the status quo works for most everyone but the very bad apples who want to wield parser readouts like a club. Just about the only difference between now and a potential 'official personal parser' is that someone would no longer have to get ACT to help with their self improvement. I suppose that could be a plus, but anyone that is serious about wanting to use a parser to track their own performance and improve upon it.. can and likely has already gotten ACT.

I will recognize ZedxKayn's earlier point in that you can also use a parser readout as a shield.. but that shield will always come hand in hand with the club.. which is why neither shield nor club will be provided officially.

[Awha]

Fair point. That did fly over my head admittedly. I still take issue with how Awha worded it nonetheless. Especially since in their response to me it amounts to another case of 'well I can get away with it if I do it juuuuust the right way'.

Well even in self defense your probably would have to be careful with how you word it to avoid any sense of harassment.

[Caurcas]

Well I was thinking of two threads when I wrote this post, this one and another about a similar subject both with a certain person who likes to assume anyone who isn't performing up to their standards is a leech, and refuses to understand that poor performance can happen for many reasons such as being rusty with the class, being tired after a long day, being distracted irl, latency, I could go on. You seem reasonable so I'm not going to school you on every possible reason. The problem is some people assume the absolute worst about someone below their standards and their comments go straight to harsh accusatory words. Right now we're not allowed to mention parser use in game, but if it became a feature of the game then of course that rule would change. And that rule change would invite comments directly about parse results and not everyone is reasonable about what they expect or polite when they want to point out a problem.

Yes players can report those who cross the line with their words but a report doesn't wipe away what happened. It doesn't remove how awful someone was made to feel. Prevention is better than cure and this appears to be the stance SE want to take.

I think parsers are excellent tools. My problem lies with how some people use them. I have too many times seen people use them as a tool to be needlessly horrible to others. As long as the community stays as it is the most I would be okay with is a personal parser that displays a grade and detailed information at the end of content that is only viewable by the player. That way players could examine their own performance without an egotistical meanspirited player making their mistakes seem like a far bigger problem than they actually are.

The first step to not being a leech/scrub/baddie/etc... is to accept you are bad and need to get better. This happened to me learning DRK in HW, back when tanks had a decently higher barrier for entre. Sure it sucked at first to have the rug pulled out from under you, but you just have to break it out and keep grinding. Eventually you get decent and even good. I was glad I was told I was a baddie because it motivated me into becoming at least an average player. Accept the only argument about parsers are based on feelings, nothing wrong with bending the knee.

[Kolsykol]

Does WoW even have a built in parser nowadays?...
Because it didn't back when I played it was just a mod you manually had to download.

Otherwise I dunno why some people are arguing like this is some fault on the side of the FFXIV devs, because as far as I know having an official parse is not the standard to begin with in MMO's.

The first step to not being a leech/scrub/baddie/etc... is to accept you are bad and need to get better. This happened to me learning DRK in HW, back when tanks had a decently higher barrier for entre. Sure it sucked at first to have the rug pulled out from under you, but you just have to break it out and keep grinding. Eventually you get decent and even good. I was glad I was told I was a baddie because it motivated me into becoming at least an average player. Accept the only argument about parsers are based on feelings, nothing wrong with bending the knee.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that it's not about feelings, but it's also about how those feelings affect people and plays into a lot of toxicity and the community.
Like for examples as I've mentioned, it's not just about people not wanting to be told that they're bellow average or whatever it's also people with insane egos and just general douchebaggery.
Just because you liked being told that you suck doesn't mean that everyone does or even cares, and those people aren't really going to get into the harder content to begin with.
I doubt they even have the motivation to even try they just want to play it casually and there's nothing wrong with that.
You can't just project your own experience unto everyone else.

'' Feelings '' isn't an invalid argument, a lot of game design is about feelings.
You kinda just ignored a lot of what Penthea said too.
It's pretty ridiculous to judge someone entirely based off of one instance of seeing how they perform.
Someone can be way better than you but fail for a whole lot of different reasons, and then you end up giving them shit and acting like they don't know how to play because '' the chart says ''.

I think that to judge someone as a player you kinda need more to go on and it's a bit silly to just expect that everyone is going to always perform at a level that is reflective of the whole.
People aren't perfect machines that all perform at a specific level at all times.