Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Senn]

Calling someone, who is bad, bad

This is why we won't get parsers. People who think like this ruin any chance of getting even private parsers built into the game. SE obviously doesn't want players pointing out each others bad parses.
And fyi, I'm not talking about giving advice on skill rotation, mechanics, or whatever because that can be beneficial. I'm talking parses - pure numbers. I'd personally like a parser, but I know some people won't shut up about other people's numbers.

[Caurcas]

This is why we won't get parsers. People who think like this ruin any chance of getting even private parsers built into the game. SE obviously doesn't want players pointing out each others bad parses.
And fyi, I'm not talking about giving advice on skill rotation, mechanics, or whatever because that can be beneficial. I'm talking parses - pure numbers. I'd personally like a parser, but I know some people won't shut up about other people's numbers.

Well there are usually two instances that come up. One, a person gets called out for being a bit low and maybe need to clean up their rotation a bit. These are usually pretty friendly or neutral, and rarely aggressive. Two, is what I like to call the "what the ****" kind of abysmal. So bad and bizarre you wonder if another player is on the other end, or if its so kind of bot. These also aren't usually aggressive due to how much it befuddles those who witness them.

[Roeshel]

This is why we won't get parsers. People who think like this ruin any chance of getting even private parsers built into the game. SE obviously doesn't want players pointing out each others bad parses.
And fyi, I'm not talking about giving advice on skill rotation, mechanics, or whatever because that can be beneficial. I'm talking parses - pure numbers. I'd personally like a parser, but I know some people won't shut up about other people's numbers.

?

If we had official parsers I wouldn't need to tell someone who is underperforming that they are underperforming. You are not making sense. As I already said, that recognizing the problem is the first step that needs to be taken if one wants to improve. If you by level 77 have not realized that you are utterly bad at your job as a tank then you need to be told that. Don't take it personally, maybe try talking with people to figure out how you can play your job better instead of hiding behind your screen, not responding to any question or advice given. I don't have to keep you in the dungeon, I did it because you were on your msq.

[Senn]

Well there are usually two instances that come up. One, a person gets called out for being a bit low and maybe need to clean up their rotation a bit. These are usually pretty friendly or neutral, and rarely aggressive. Two, is what I like to call the "what the ****" kind of abysmal. So bad and bizarre you wonder if another player is on the other end, or if its so kind of bot. These also aren't usually aggressive due to how much it befuddles those who witness them.

I don't think SE wants people mentioning parses at all, though. Even if it's rather neutral.

If we had official parsers I wouldn't need to tell someone who is underperforming that they are underperforming.

You and I both know that won't stop others from calling other people out. This is why we won't get parsers. I want parsers, I'm just telling you why we won't get them.

[Wavaryen]

?

If we had official parsers I wouldn't need to tell someone who is underperforming that they are underperforming. You are not making sense. As I already said, that recognizing the problem is the first step that needs to be taken if one wants to improve. If you by level 77 have not realized that you are utterly bad at your job as a tank then you need to be told that. Don't take it personally, maybe try talking with peopl to figure out how you can play your job bettere instead of hiding behind your screen, not responding to any question or advice given. I don't have to keep you in the dungeon, I did it because you were on your msq.

Some people just don't care to play better, and enjoy playing the job in that way.

The developers look at other mmorpgs and saw how parsers are being used. The bad out weigh the good for them, and I sorta agree.


More to mmos than just improving your numbers. If they go back on this way of thinking it will be reflected on the community. We seen what happens with other mmorpgs. Why bring that to this one?

[Roeshel]

Some people just don't care to play better, and enjoy playing the job in that way.

What do you mean enjoy playing the job that way? What is that way? There are many ways to play. I am not expecting everyone to have the best performance in every run, I am expecting basic competency. And in case it is lacking, I am expecting that you can at least communicate. Tell us why you are unable to play and give us a good reason to carry you. "It is just fun for me to be bad" is not good enough.

When your enjoyment comes at the expense of the people around you, you are toxic. You may not be using words, but your actions speak louder.

You don't have to queue up with random people when you give zero ****s how your actions are affecting them and feel you have no obligation or responsibility with the role that you've picked to play, you can always do dungeons with your squadron or trust npc-s. When you are with people, things are expected of you.

[Wavaryen]

What do you mean enjoy playing the job that way? What is that way? There are many ways to play. I am not expecting everyone to have the best performance in every run, I am expecting basic competency. And in case it is lacking, I am expecting that you can at least communicate. Tell us why you are unable to play and give us a good reason to carry you. "It is just fun for me to be bad" is not good enough.

When your enjoyment comes at the expense of the people around you, you are toxic. You may not be using words, but your actions speak louder.

You don't have to queue up with random people when you give zero ****s how your actions are affecting them and feel you have no obligation or responsibility with the role that you've picked to play, you can always do dungeons with your squadron or trust npc-s. When you are with people, things are expected of you.

Some people don't play in basic competency. Some people don't use skills they don't like in a job no matter how good said skill is. Some don't do a rotation how we want.



Tons of people like that in this mmo. The best way to counter act it, is to be apart of a ls and build your own groups that has players you know that all agree to be at your acceptable level of competence. If you are using a queue system to find your groups and want people to play at your acceptable level. That is not going to happen. This mmorpg has so many types of players and play styles that don't see your way of thinking.

[DPZ2]

?

If we had official parsers I wouldn't need to tell someone who is underperforming that they are underperforming.

If all I have is a "personal" parser, how am I going to know I'm underperforming? On what basis do you believe that people who you see once in an instance every year or two are suddenly going to know they're underperforming? How do you think that seeing numbers is going to fix the underlying problem you think is the cause?

Or, for group parsers, how is knowing you are underperforming going to work? As an example, back in the day when dragoons had only a line AoE at level a fun tank went wall-to-wall in Dzemael Darkhold, drawing everything in a circle around them, complete with about 10 monsters with their own AoEs. Of course, evading AoEs causes a drop in DPS. Of course, ignoring the AoEs and dying ALSO causes a drop in DPS. Is that dragoon "underperforming" or is the tank just stupid? Should someone in the party point that out? How do you do it politely: "Tank, you are stupid for pulling things wall-to-wall in an instance where multiple AoEs are going to cause a drop in my DPS numbers?" What is qualitatively different telling them that without a parser?

How is a DPS parser going to tell a tank "You are bad at your job" at level 77?

And where are the heroes out there that have been saying "Parsers will allow you to get better for end-game content" or "I'll never use a parser in normal mode because it's so easy and the numbers vary greatly with the gear/user level" when you explicitly just called out a level 77 tank who may never engage in end-game content?

The point being - if you can recognize someone is underperforming without a parser, how is adding a parser going to change things unless you are totally into shaming every player who does not meet your own expectations?

[Penthea]

If all I have is a "personal" parser, how am I going to know I'm underperforming?

Rating like being given two or five stars or having a C or S rating. Many games do this already.

How do you think that seeing numbers is going to fix the underlying problem you think is the cause?

The personal parser could have charts showing stuff like how many dot refreshes a player missed, if they missed out on using ogcds, etc. Some websites already give this information to players based on logs they have uploaded.

As for how much it will fix, well that depends on the player. A parser can't force a person to play a certain way. A player has to want to improve in order to get better. And if they don't want to or just cannot (low skill ceiling) then they're not going to change with or without a parser.

[DPZ2]

Rating like being given two or five stars or having a C or S rating. Many games do this already.

The personal parser could have charts showing stuff like how many dot refreshes a player missed, if they missed out on using ogcds, etc. Some websites already give this information to players based on logs they have uploaded.

So, you've gone from a "rating" (which is meaningless in the example of the Darkhold Tank experience I mentioned) to "charts showing stuff" about what they 'missed'. In what games does such logic exist today? Do you have any idea how much bandwidth that sort of information would require? Working in the IT world, I do have an idea, and if you think latency is an issue now, get ready for a big surprise.

The reasons all those 'other sites' have so much information is that a player records it on their own system. The game doesn't do that for you, nor will it ever. I get shivers just thinking of the data that multiple instances at any given time across data centers would have to generate and transmit in real time, to make those charts possible.