White Mage Flavor in 6.0

[Recon1o6]

This is something that did always bug me about sch, it never had a consistent theme with its abilities.
Its also a thing that irks me in ff14, its effects are TOO big sometimes. Stone 4 for example is bigger than every character.

White mage needs to have more nature elements for its spells. Remember stoneskin? you can always tell when that was cast on you if you missed the icon because of the great wall of stone and a distinguishable and impactful sound effect

Whm having elements back for their theme and preferably more in their heals
Astro has stars, but it should really get some clock elements and or more darkening effects amongst its lights like in its lb3 or almaghest
Sage needs to be tech based personally. A lot of players wanted a none magic healer but SE as usual doesn't deliver. The least they could do after making it fun is making it have a tech theme with attack drone glams.
Scholar's theme is a bit of a tricky one. It could take the bright fairy lights but that would be lazy and inconsistent. Another suggestion: geometric themes. Tactical maps and shapes

[Liam_Harper]

When you have the lily system, even if you are procing them far more frequently, every single one of them would make better sense if they were OGCD skills because it makes it possible to actually weave them between other GCD skills. For example, if I do Plenary Indulgence (OGCD) => Medica 2 (GCD) => Afflatus Rapture (GCD) that would make more sense if it was an OGCD skill. Afflatus Misery is (IIRC) an OGCD skill, which means I can snap that off between Glares.

However, most of your comments are coming off as if you really need to play WHM to refresh yourself because I'm about convinced you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.

This comment is a very good example of why you shouldn't insult someone when you haven't done your homework...

You're wrong on most of that and don't seem to understand what weaving is. oGCD's (instant abilities) have a 1 second animation delay. Therefore Plenary -> Medica II would take 3.5 second at base SpS. The Plenary is what we call a "clip" and these are undesirable because those +1 seconds all add up to considerable downtime over a fight.
A lily heal is an instant GCD. When you use a lily, it casts instantly and you then have the 2.5 sec as a window in which you can use oGCD's (and/or move). So Afflatus Rapture -> Benison -> Tetra is only 2.5 seconds. Weave windows are very important because we need them to use oGCD's without any delay and avoid or position for mechanics.

Misery is not an oGCD and can (and should) also be used as a weave window or movement tool. You should avoid snapping oGCD's between Glares except in emergencies or Assize.

So you're comparing it to another skill from a different class and pretending like that's relevant how? I mean, it's not like you can stack Medica 2 and regen on a target right now for passive healing or anything...

But I think you're demonstrating why a non-healer trying to tell the healers how to play is a bad thing...

He's comparing it to Earthy Star because it's the strongest single heal in the game. Your Medica II idea is nearly twice as strong as two Earthly Stars. One GCD gives you 1300 total heal potency. That's bonkers. Basically Grimoire knows what they're talking about and you could probably learn a bit by listening.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

When you have the lily system, even if you are procing them far more frequently, every single one of them would make better sense if they were OGCD skills because it makes it possible to actually weave them between other GCD skills.

No.
If anything, the last thing WHM need right now is more oGCDs because they're currently lacking available options to open up weaving windows to use said oGCDs. Add more of those and you'll only exacerbate clipping, one of their gameplay issue. WHM currently have 9 (or 10 if you count Fluid Aura) oGCD from their own arsenal and 3 from role skills, that gives them a total of 12-13 oGCD that can be weaved. Assuming that no Lily or Regen were thrown, WHMs only have 4 (5 if you count swiftcasted Glare) weave slots to fill per minute. Each lily spellcast provide us 2 additional weave slots due to being insta-GCD.

For example, if I do Plenary Indulgence (OGCD) => Medica 2 (GCD) => Afflatus Rapture (GCD) that would make more sense if it was an OGCD skill.

Medica II cast time is as long as our GCD after Spell Speed calculated in. You spend one -whole- GCD just to cast and release it. Now assume that we've made Rapture an oGCD... that would make far less sense because an oGCD doesn't roll our GCD uptime. You know what is this? It's called clipping. Please don't.

Afflatus Misery is (IIRC) an OGCD skill, which means I can snap that off between Glares. The last one Afflatus Solace is frustrating as a GCD skill when it should be OGCD like Tet. But that also highlights a problem with the single target healing on the WHM as you generally shouldn't need Cure 2 unless things are really going sideways

Again, no.
Misery is an instant GCD/spell. You can't snap that one 'between Glares'. What you've been doing so far is probably following up a fully casted Glare by an immediate Misery nuke. Solace is better off being GCD because like Rapture, make them an oGCD and you'll exacerbate WHM's clipping and leaving WHMs with far less option to weave beside tossing a Regen as their weaving/movement tool or early Aero/Dia refresh.

[Grimoire-M]

This comment is a very good example of why you shouldn't insult someone...

To be fair, my tone wasn’t much better. I asked them to read up on why BiS is what it is because they needed the clarification. But the gameplay requests and comparisons all came from the same place. Getting experience on how certain mechanics and choices affect gameplay and how that affects balance is just as important as analytical thinking itself.

To me, though, mechanics also represent flavour. Usually by how we constrain them, such as relegating them to certain classes/roles. Done well it helps with theming just as much as graphics.

[Almagnus1]

To be fair, my tone wasn’t much better. I asked them to read up on why BiS is what it is because they needed the clarification.

No, you were just demonstrating the former as I already know what BiS is (despite not working towards it atm because of not having enough time to dedicate to FFXIV on a weekly basis and that not being fair to a static), and I responded in kind to an elitist that really belongs in WoW.

[Almagnus1]

This is something that did always bug me about sch, it never had a consistent theme with its abilities.
Its also a thing that irks me in ff14, its effects are TOO big sometimes. Stone 4 for example is bigger than every character.

White mage needs to have more nature elements for its spells. Remember stoneskin? you can always tell when that was cast on you if you missed the icon because of the great wall of stone and a distinguishable and impactful sound effect

Whm having elements back for their theme and preferably more in their heals
Astro has stars, but it should really get some clock elements and or more darkening effects amongst its lights like in its lb3 or almaghest
Sage needs to be tech based personally. A lot of players wanted a none magic healer but SE as usual doesn't deliver. The least they could do after making it fun is making it have a tech theme with attack drone glams.
Scholar's theme is a bit of a tricky one. It could take the bright fairy lights but that would be lazy and inconsistent. Another suggestion: geometric themes. Tactical maps and shapes

If you take a look at crystalline shapes (especially bismuth crystals) and fractals, that would fit with the class as that's an easily recognizable math-y and science-y look. Sage being techy based could go with circuitry patterns (replace discrete components with crystals to make it magitek), as many of us would recognize that as distinctly sage.

No.
If anything, the last thing WHM need right now is more oGCDs because they're currently lacking available options to open up weaving windows to use said oGCDs. Add more of those and you'll only exacerbate clipping, one of their gameplay issue. WHM currently have 9 (or 10 if you count Fluid Aura) oGCD from their own arsenal and 3 from role skills, that gives them a total of 12-13 oGCD that can be weaved. Assuming that no Lily or Regen were thrown, WHMs only have 4 (5 if you count swiftcasted Glare) weave slots to fill per minute. Each lily spellcast provide us 2 additional weave slots due to being insta-GCD.

In a sense, the simplicity of WHM when compared to SCH or AST is part of it's charm, and while that's a good skill to learn (especially for the DPSers), I'm wondering if it's intentionally not part of the WHM job design as WHM is a pretty simplistic job.

[Semirhage]

> WHM is the simple Sylphie job and clips by design

That's enough XIV forums for me today. I'm tired already.

[Grimoire-M]

> WHM is the simple Sylphie job and clips by design

That's enough XIV forums for me today. I'm tired already.

Just be glad they're not from Dreadwyrm Academy.

[NobleWinter]

Im glad all voices are being represented well in this thread. Those who can do math and understand clipping and those who can't and don't. It helps you to see where the Devs may have gotten a lot of their healer input.

[Recon1o6]

In a sense, the simplicity of WHM when compared to SCH or AST is part of it's charm, and while that's a good skill to learn (especially for the DPSers), I'm wondering if it's intentionally not part of the WHM job design as WHM is a pretty simplistic job.

Charm?

Its the entire reason healers are so shit atm. They are simple braindead glare/broil/malefic spamming healbots with a skill ceiling lower than the orison thighboots

Clipping is bad job design, no matter what job it is. White mage is no exception. It is a job not a class!