Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Jadedsins]

That kinda reads like "my fun matters more than yours" as well to be honest.
The fact that ffxiv is an mmorpg should kinda imply that everyone should have fun. Being forced into dungeons is part of mmorpg, that doesnt mean that you can slack or something. Obviously you shouldnt be forced into uncomfortable situations, but neither should you cause issues either.

I mean that is truth. Each person way of fun matters, it is a mmorpg right? So do you want everyone to have the same standards?


It is give and take. My way of having fun matters to me. Just like your way of fun matters to you. The only thing is. How I play only reflects in the few times I got to do dungeons. So it is a mmorpg. Be understanding that for a very small part of the game I am force to group. I should not have to change what is fun for me, because you are unlucky enough to randomly get into my group and it will take slightly longer.


Also, I've played MANY mmmorpgs. Force grouping is very rare. Group content is a choice in many mmorpgs.


I always get a chuckle when people say mmorpgs are about grouping with other players! People are amazed that others can get enjoyment out of mmorpgs without playing with others much.

[MyakotApelsia]

I mean that is truth. Each person way of fun matters, it is a mmorpg right? So do you want everyone to have the same standards?


It is give and take. My way of having fun matters to me. Just like your way of fun matters to you. The only thing is. How I play only reflects in the few times I got to do dungeons. So it is a mmorpg. Be understanding that for a very small part of the game I am force to group. I should not have to change what is fun for me, because you are unlucky enough to randomly get into my group and it will take slightly longer.


Also, I've played MANY mmmorpgs. Force grouping is very rare. Group content is a choice in many mmorpgs.


I always get a chuckle when people say mmorpgs are about grouping with other players! People are amazed that others can get enjoyment out of mmorpgs without playing with others much.

I could go and freestyle sam or something in a dungeon, have fun myself, but that would make other people have less great of a time. Thats something that should not happen, and thats what ive meant. If its really just marginal difference, its not much of an issue. Its a direct issue if your fun heavily impacts other players.

Point is, you should at least somewhat care about other people in your party.

Ive also played quite a bit of mmorpgs, and I never said that you are forced into content by all of them.
What ive meant is that you are currently playing mmorpg, main part of which is "massive multiplayer online", so things like that are not something to be surprised of. If you treat "online multiplayer" game as "singleplayer", then idk what to tell you really.

[Wavaryen]

I could go and freestyle sam or something in a dungeon, have fun myself, but that would make other people have less great of a time. Thats something that should not happen, and thats what ive meant. If its really just marginal difference, its not much of an issue. Its a direct issue if your fun heavily impacts other players.

Point is, you should at least somewhat care about other people in your party.

Ive also played quite a bit of mmorpgs, and I never said that you are forced into content by all of them.
What ive meant is that you are currently playing mmorpg, main part of which is "massive multiplayer online", so things like that are not something to be surprised of. If you treat "online multiplayer" game as "singleplayer", then idk what to tell you really.

She could say that same thing about other players. In that context it works both ways.

How she enjoys the game is not breaking the rules, and if it bothers other people well no point in either side standing on a moral high ground about that. How players play can reflect on your enjoyment. Part of the charm of mmorpgs. I use to rage about it as well, but at some point I came to understand that it really does not matter at the end of the day if it takes longer.

Both sides can point to each other and say hey you are ruining my fun why are you being selfish or whatever. It is a losing battle for both. It being a mmorpg both sides can use that as defense on this same subject.

[MyakotApelsia]

She could say that same thing about other players. In that context it works both ways.

How she enjoys the game is not breaking the rules, and if it bothers other people well no point in either side standing on a moral high ground about that. How players play can reflect on your enjoyment. Part of the charm of mmorpgs. I use to rage about it as well, but at some point I came to understand that it really does not matter at the end of the day if it takes longer.

Both sides can point to each other and say hey you are ruining my fun why are you being selfish or whatever. It is a losing battle for both. It being a mmorpg both sides can use that as defense on this same subject.

I agree it applies to both sides when it comes in general interactions.
And as i said, its fine if the difference is not big, almost nobody actually is going to be bothered by it
Issues start in that particular context when the difference is extremely noticeable, that is the point where line can be drawn.

Same thing applies vice versa yeah. But the way it happens is somewhat different
You wont have worse time if someone is doing their rotation properly, or uses aoe on mob pulls. You might, if person afk's or gets pretty much carried

[Wavaryen]

I agree it applies to both sides when it comes in general interactions.
And as i said, its fine if the difference is not big, almost nobody actually is going to be bothered by it
Issues start in that particular context when the difference is extremely noticeable, that is the point where line can be drawn.

Same thing applies vice versa yeah. But the way it happens is somewhat different
You wont have worse time if someone is doing their rotation properly, or uses aoe on mob pulls. You might, if person afk's or gets pretty much carried

Agree, but all we can do is be understanding of each other. As she said, she only does group content when the story forces her to do it. Her way of being understanding to others who don't like how she plays is to not do group content like the dailies and such. That is her middle ground.


My own stance is this, when grouping with others for optional content. I want players to show me the same respect by playing your class to fullest that you can. After all it is a group content that you pick to do that you don't need to do. So afking or just not understanding your class, I am more willing to vote kick.


On dungeons that require by the story and or trials. I am 100 percent understanding of players like her that just play how they want. They want to see the story, and I should not gatekeep what they consider "fun" even if I don't understand it and it could ruin my fun by being god awful slow.

[MyakotApelsia]

Agree, but all we can do is be understanding of each other. As she said, she only does group content when the story forces her to do it. Her way of being understanding to others who don't like how she plays is to not do group content like the dailies and such. That is her middle ground.


My own stance is this, when grouping with others for optional content. I want players to show me the same respect by playing your class to fullest that you can. After all it is a group content that you pick to do that you don't need to do. So afking or just not understanding your class, I am more willing to vote kick.


On dungeons that require by the story and or trials. I am 100 percent understanding of players like her that just play how they want. They want to see the story, and I should not gatekeep what they consider "fun" even if I don't understand it and it could ruin my fun by being god awful slow.

It's.... kind of a very questionable middle ground imo. Kinda goes against "have some respect for other people", since you are pretty much telling everyone "deal with it, you dont pay my sub"

Fair

Partially fair imo. My stance is that its fine until you get to 65-70+ levels. Imo you should at least at least recognise what needs to be done after you complete 2 expansions and countless dungeons/trials. If you are going to 80 dungeon/trial and still maintain philosophy of "i dont care", i dunno, at least for me its kind of a bad thing. But maybe thats because i dont get these things, since i try to not disappoint anyone when playing with other people