Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[HisShadowX]

Yikes. If you consider wiping at 2 enemies "learning" and it being "good thing" that people put up with it - you really need to set your priorities straight, because to wipe on something like you need to put next to 0 effort.

No need to be that extreme really. I doubt you would like if someone said that "i wish you could send all casual players back to Second Life".

Depends on context, if someone is complaining about mechanics, it doesnt mean they are "hardcore masochists" (also never heard this term before, did you come up with it in like 5 seconds? lmao. Could have at least looked up definition of "masochist"). Most "hardcore" fanbase will just do mechanics in question without complaining, since they are good enough at the game to not have issues with those. There are casual players that whine about mechanics (See: Shinryu on release), does that mean they are "hardcore masochists"? Questionable

The term that you are looking for is "Toxic Players", and those are not limited to one group of players. Though you make an impression of someone who just calls everyone who doesnt share your opinion "hardcore masochist" just because of ignorance on subject really.
Asking someone to do more than nothing does not make someone "hardcore", you can be casual and still ask for decent performance

Anyone who plays and enjoy the following games Matrix Online, FFXI, Everquest, City of Heros, Star Wars Galaxies, you know failed games I would consider a masochist. I have been playing MMORPGs Neverwinter Nights were released on AOL in the early 90s. As more people play MMORPGs you have seen the sliders shift towards casual from hardcore players.

A person doesn't have to agree with me to be a hardcore player. It's a form of preference those players prefer.

This is no longer FFXIV (Orginal) where you were punished for playing more than a couple hours a day. The game had to be completely remade due to the fact that the game was made for a hardcore minority because FFXI eventually made money YEARS ago.

Hardcore players because perhaps the games they play are ghost towns are coming into modern games and expecting everyone to play like them. They do not understand what they want would eventually kill or destroy the game like the original FFXIV. You guys had your chance to prove a game could be made for you people and no one played it except you people.

You guys are like a hermit community that goes underground for a decade and comes out and surprised no one likes your style of gameplay. The hermits from SWG were quite literally shocked and annoyed people demanded they list their guild as a DKP Guild and announce it when advertising because you were considered a bad person or almost as bad as a scammer for not telling people what you really were. As DKP guilds fell out of favor and with the advent of dungeon finders removing DKP Guild's monopolies over dungeon and raid rewards.

[Ammokkx]

Hardcore players because perhaps the games they play are ghost towns are coming into modern games and expecting everyone to play like them. They do not understand what they want would eventually kill or destroy the game like the original FFXIV. You guys had your chance to prove a game could be made for you people and no one played it except you people.

excuse me?

the original FFXIV was a laggy, clunky, bug-ridden mess with awful servers and really bad menus. The game didn't flop due to being "hardcore" or whatever, it flopped because it was just a downright awful game.

At least bring up an example that doesn't have a million polygons in a single potted plant.

[Arillyn]

Anyone who plays and enjoy the following games Matrix Online, FFXI, Everquest, City of Heros, Star Wars Galaxies, you know failed games I would consider a masochist. I have been playing MMORPGs Neverwinter Nights were released on AOL in the early 90s. As more people play MMORPGs you have seen the sliders shift towards casual from hardcore players.

Hang on - FFXI and Everquest were hardly failed games. They are old MMOs for sure but not failed at all. Heck, people still play them and FFXI still makes SE plenty of money. So failed? Nah, they aren't.

Hardcore players because perhaps the games they play are ghost towns are coming into modern games and expecting everyone to play like them. They do not understand what they want would eventually kill or destroy the game like the original FFXIV. You guys had your chance to prove a game could be made for you people and no one played it except you people.

FFXIV 1.0 died not because of hardcore players. It was a shitshow when it was released - the engine and code were a mess. The lag was horrible, the menus were a mess, the leveling system was a mess, so many bugs - SE was going to update it and then realized it was in such a bad shape they couldn't and had to rebuild it. THAT is why we got 2.0. Not because of hardcore players. If you really want to know the story of what happened and why, you should go check out the Noclip videos about it. It explains everything really well, especially for those who didn't play 1.0.

[TaleraRistain]

Hang on - FFXI and Everquest were hardly failed games. They are old MMOs for sure but not failed at all. Heck, people still play them and FFXI still makes SE plenty of money. So failed? Nah, they aren't.

Especially EQ. It just got an expansion last year. It's a niche game and it does drive home the idea that certain ideas with older MMOs don't work in the current environment, but it's certainly not failed.

[MyakotApelsia]

Anyone who plays and enjoy the following games Matrix Online, FFXI, Everquest, City of Heros, Star Wars Galaxies, you know failed games I would consider a masochist. I have been playing MMORPGs Neverwinter Nights were released on AOL in the early 90s. As more people play MMORPGs you have seen the sliders shift towards casual from hardcore players.

Tf are you talking about? Most people dont even know about at least half of those mmorpgs, that literally doesnt mean anything. FFXI? Everquest? Failed games? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Original FFXIV died for reasons far beyond what you are saying. Your whole sentence just shows how ignorant you are in that topic. 1.0 was broken, unstable, barely playable game, with tons of questionable choices, and it died because of that, not because of some "hardcore minority" you have imagined for yourself. Hell, overwhelming majority of players, both casuals and hardcore players agree that 1.0 was a mistake. Stop spewing nonsense without doing at least 10 minute research.

If you consider asking for basic competence to be "bad thing enforced by hardcore minority", then i suggest maybe rethinking your priorities.

Smh, show the forums on the doll where hardcore players have touched you. You are literally just talking about things you dont even know about, and dont bother reading to find out.

There is a difference between trying to instruct someone new and criticizing them or the entire party or raid without offering constructive comments or solutions. I have had parties where we all learned something new because someone was very informative and my play style has evolved because of good advice.

Large part of this thread is literally about people that dont know about anything and that refuse to learn, even when you give them solutions. Have you even bothered checking out, idk, last 10 pages?
General agreement here is that advice needs to be there, and there are quite a bit of posts about how people dont react to those advices well

The problem with most hardcore players is they lack social skills in real life and online. Sometimes this can be due to a disability sometimes it can be due to playing in a dead MMORPG for years and they need to unlearn or refuse to unlearn the social norms for the new game they are in.

What kind of hole did you pull this "argument" from? This is barely ever a case. Good job thinking up another fantasy for yourself i guess.
If anything, if you think that asking for people to do their job is not the social norm, then you 1) Imply that ffxiv is a game where you are supposed to be deadweight, 2) imply you are part of it.
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It really feels like you dont understand the difference between "hardcore player", "casual player" and an idiot. Most of first and second parties are fine and chill people that will help anyone who needs it. Last part of community is just stupid. That doesnt make them "casual" or "hardcore".
I did an expert roulette once on my white mage, and someone started to tell me about how bad of a player i am because i dont spam cure2 exclusively. And sure, i didnt use it, because i have all other heals that do the job better. That complaint was full of swears and stuff.
Was it hardcore player? No. Wanna know why? Because hardcore players know how game works.
Was it casual player? Not really. Those usually are pretty chill and wont harass anyone over a thing like that.
What was that? An idiot, simple. Going around, harassing people for things that he doesnt even know about. Like how you just did 2 posts in a row full of misinformation and your fantasies.

Working with people in this game sometimes can be frustrating, but you have to be patient and try to be helpful.

Doesnt work so well when the person you try to help starts talking smack because "you dont pay my sub"