Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Ammokkx]

Hardcore players because perhaps the games they play are ghost towns are coming into modern games and expecting everyone to play like them. They do not understand what they want would eventually kill or destroy the game like the original FFXIV. You guys had your chance to prove a game could be made for you people and no one played it except you people.

excuse me?

the original FFXIV was a laggy, clunky, bug-ridden mess with awful servers and really bad menus. The game didn't flop due to being "hardcore" or whatever, it flopped because it was just a downright awful game.

At least bring up an example that doesn't have a million polygons in a single potted plant.

[Penthea]

One of the people responding you can tell with his voice had an impaired mind and was disabled. The way everyone around him, listened and responded to his back and was just so kind and helpful that sort of stuck with me as a player to see that sort of humanity in game. No one mocked him people offered advice on playing the game and also listened.

Working with people in this game sometimes can be frustrating, but you have to be patient and try to be helpful. I know you all love when someone is helpful towards you all. Spread the good will and work with your team don't yell at them, work with them. If the party does not work out, then hey, just disband or leave.

You can edit your posts to bypass the character limit and put in everything you want to say into one post. I'm guessing you don't know this because of your last few posts. No need to use up your daily post limit so quickly if you edit just one post

[Arillyn]

Anyone who plays and enjoy the following games Matrix Online, FFXI, Everquest, City of Heros, Star Wars Galaxies, you know failed games I would consider a masochist. I have been playing MMORPGs Neverwinter Nights were released on AOL in the early 90s. As more people play MMORPGs you have seen the sliders shift towards casual from hardcore players.

Hang on - FFXI and Everquest were hardly failed games. They are old MMOs for sure but not failed at all. Heck, people still play them and FFXI still makes SE plenty of money. So failed? Nah, they aren't.

Hardcore players because perhaps the games they play are ghost towns are coming into modern games and expecting everyone to play like them. They do not understand what they want would eventually kill or destroy the game like the original FFXIV. You guys had your chance to prove a game could be made for you people and no one played it except you people.

FFXIV 1.0 died not because of hardcore players. It was a shitshow when it was released - the engine and code were a mess. The lag was horrible, the menus were a mess, the leveling system was a mess, so many bugs - SE was going to update it and then realized it was in such a bad shape they couldn't and had to rebuild it. THAT is why we got 2.0. Not because of hardcore players. If you really want to know the story of what happened and why, you should go check out the Noclip videos about it. It explains everything really well, especially for those who didn't play 1.0.

[MyakotApelsia]

Anyone who plays and enjoy the following games Matrix Online, FFXI, Everquest, City of Heros, Star Wars Galaxies, you know failed games I would consider a masochist. I have been playing MMORPGs Neverwinter Nights were released on AOL in the early 90s. As more people play MMORPGs you have seen the sliders shift towards casual from hardcore players.

Tf are you talking about? Most people dont even know about at least half of those mmorpgs, that literally doesnt mean anything. FFXI? Everquest? Failed games? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Original FFXIV died for reasons far beyond what you are saying. Your whole sentence just shows how ignorant you are in that topic. 1.0 was broken, unstable, barely playable game, with tons of questionable choices, and it died because of that, not because of some "hardcore minority" you have imagined for yourself. Hell, overwhelming majority of players, both casuals and hardcore players agree that 1.0 was a mistake. Stop spewing nonsense without doing at least 10 minute research.

If you consider asking for basic competence to be "bad thing enforced by hardcore minority", then i suggest maybe rethinking your priorities.

Smh, show the forums on the doll where hardcore players have touched you. You are literally just talking about things you dont even know about, and dont bother reading to find out.

There is a difference between trying to instruct someone new and criticizing them or the entire party or raid without offering constructive comments or solutions. I have had parties where we all learned something new because someone was very informative and my play style has evolved because of good advice.

Large part of this thread is literally about people that dont know about anything and that refuse to learn, even when you give them solutions. Have you even bothered checking out, idk, last 10 pages?
General agreement here is that advice needs to be there, and there are quite a bit of posts about how people dont react to those advices well

The problem with most hardcore players is they lack social skills in real life and online. Sometimes this can be due to a disability sometimes it can be due to playing in a dead MMORPG for years and they need to unlearn or refuse to unlearn the social norms for the new game they are in.

What kind of hole did you pull this "argument" from? This is barely ever a case. Good job thinking up another fantasy for yourself i guess.
If anything, if you think that asking for people to do their job is not the social norm, then you 1) Imply that ffxiv is a game where you are supposed to be deadweight, 2) imply you are part of it.
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It really feels like you dont understand the difference between "hardcore player", "casual player" and an idiot. Most of first and second parties are fine and chill people that will help anyone who needs it. Last part of community is just stupid. That doesnt make them "casual" or "hardcore".
I did an expert roulette once on my white mage, and someone started to tell me about how bad of a player i am because i dont spam cure2 exclusively. And sure, i didnt use it, because i have all other heals that do the job better. That complaint was full of swears and stuff.
Was it hardcore player? No. Wanna know why? Because hardcore players know how game works.
Was it casual player? Not really. Those usually are pretty chill and wont harass anyone over a thing like that.
What was that? An idiot, simple. Going around, harassing people for things that he doesnt even know about. Like how you just did 2 posts in a row full of misinformation and your fantasies.

Working with people in this game sometimes can be frustrating, but you have to be patient and try to be helpful.

Doesnt work so well when the person you try to help starts talking smack because "you dont pay my sub"

[Jadedsins]

which is quite sad, if we're being honest?
refusing to use integral parts of your kit because [you don't like it/don't like the animations/whatever] is not something that should be defended or be proud of and yet it's okay because people would rather waste another person's time (and be proud of that) than put in a modicum of effort when it comes to pressing f-ing buttons every few seconds, the utter selfishness of that is amazing
you know what's fun? a nice and quick dungeon run where everybody knows what they're doing and presses their buttons correctly, everyone in the group will have had fun that way!



heh, the exact same happened to me, though it was the tank who defended their whm and they kicked me and saved me a headache, the tank even made a post about me in the DF thread!

I'm very proud that I can make a class fun for me, and don't have to go to the developers and ask for nerfs or buffs. I'm also having fun. A run taking longer is wasting time? You are playing a video game, and you only feel like progression in said video game is time not wasted. A nice quick dungeon is fun for you? Well that is you, not everyone has to play by that standards, How fast the dungeon is has no value to me at all, I will enjoy myself if it takes 90 mins or 15.


Like I said before, you can get other people to boot me even though it has never happen, and if it does. I will shrug and find a new one. I'm in no rush, and it will get done sooner or later. I'm not trying to tell you how you find fun is wrong. Progression and getting things done and over with you enjoy. More power to you, but i'm not going to go at that pace, or have that mindset. That is not why I play. I also only group with other players when I have too. So that is my way of being understanding about other players way of doing things. So when the game forces me to group up to unlock more content. That is a game design choice not my own.

[MyakotApelsia]

I'm very proud that I can make a class fun for me, and don't have to go to the developers and ask for nerfs or buffs. I'm also having fun. A run taking longer is wasting time? You are playing a video game, and you only feel like progression in said video game is time not wasted. A nice quick dungeon is fun for you? Well that is you, not everyone has to play by that standards, How fast the dungeon is has no value to me at all, I will enjoy myself if it takes 90 mins or 15.


Like I said before, you can get other people to boot me even though it has never happen, and if it does. I will shrug and find a new one. I'm in no rush, and it will get done sooner or later. I'm not trying to tell you how you find fun is wrong. Progression and getting things done and over with you enjoy. More power to you, but i'm not going to go at that pace, or have that mindset. That is not why I play. I also only group with other players when I have too. So that is my way of being understanding about other players way of doing things. So when the game forces me to group up to unlock more content. That is a game design choice not my own.

That kinda reads like "my fun matters more than yours" as well to be honest.
The fact that ffxiv is an mmorpg should kinda imply that everyone should have fun. Being forced into dungeons is part of mmorpg, that doesnt mean that you can slack or something. Obviously you shouldnt be forced into uncomfortable situations, but neither should you cause issues either.

[Jadedsins]

That kinda reads like "my fun matters more than yours" as well to be honest.
The fact that ffxiv is an mmorpg should kinda imply that everyone should have fun. Being forced into dungeons is part of mmorpg, that doesnt mean that you can slack or something. Obviously you shouldnt be forced into uncomfortable situations, but neither should you cause issues either.

I mean that is truth. Each person way of fun matters, it is a mmorpg right? So do you want everyone to have the same standards?


It is give and take. My way of having fun matters to me. Just like your way of fun matters to you. The only thing is. How I play only reflects in the few times I got to do dungeons. So it is a mmorpg. Be understanding that for a very small part of the game I am force to group. I should not have to change what is fun for me, because you are unlucky enough to randomly get into my group and it will take slightly longer.


Also, I've played MANY mmmorpgs. Force grouping is very rare. Group content is a choice in many mmorpgs.


I always get a chuckle when people say mmorpgs are about grouping with other players! People are amazed that others can get enjoyment out of mmorpgs without playing with others much.

[Wavaryen]

I'm not sure where the it is a MMORPG and grouping with others is a must came from.


MMORPGS are just advance version of mud games, a virtual world with others playing in it. I'm sitting here having feels because I go into my city right now and see tons of DRK lining up honoring berserk author. I talk with people, and do world content with others running around. The maps, and goods that I make is sold for other players to use. Group content is just a small part of what makes mmorpgs great.

[MyakotApelsia]

I mean that is truth. Each person way of fun matters, it is a mmorpg right? So do you want everyone to have the same standards?


It is give and take. My way of having fun matters to me. Just like your way of fun matters to you. The only thing is. How I play only reflects in the few times I got to do dungeons. So it is a mmorpg. Be understanding that for a very small part of the game I am force to group. I should not have to change what is fun for me, because you are unlucky enough to randomly get into my group and it will take slightly longer.


Also, I've played MANY mmmorpgs. Force grouping is very rare. Group content is a choice in many mmorpgs.


I always get a chuckle when people say mmorpgs are about grouping with other players! People are amazed that others can get enjoyment out of mmorpgs without playing with others much.

I could go and freestyle sam or something in a dungeon, have fun myself, but that would make other people have less great of a time. Thats something that should not happen, and thats what ive meant. If its really just marginal difference, its not much of an issue. Its a direct issue if your fun heavily impacts other players.

Point is, you should at least somewhat care about other people in your party.

Ive also played quite a bit of mmorpgs, and I never said that you are forced into content by all of them.
What ive meant is that you are currently playing mmorpg, main part of which is "massive multiplayer online", so things like that are not something to be surprised of. If you treat "online multiplayer" game as "singleplayer", then idk what to tell you really.

[Wavaryen]

I could go and freestyle sam or something in a dungeon, have fun myself, but that would make other people have less great of a time. Thats something that should not happen, and thats what ive meant. If its really just marginal difference, its not much of an issue. Its a direct issue if your fun heavily impacts other players.

Point is, you should at least somewhat care about other people in your party.

Ive also played quite a bit of mmorpgs, and I never said that you are forced into content by all of them.
What ive meant is that you are currently playing mmorpg, main part of which is "massive multiplayer online", so things like that are not something to be surprised of. If you treat "online multiplayer" game as "singleplayer", then idk what to tell you really.

She could say that same thing about other players. In that context it works both ways.

How she enjoys the game is not breaking the rules, and if it bothers other people well no point in either side standing on a moral high ground about that. How players play can reflect on your enjoyment. Part of the charm of mmorpgs. I use to rage about it as well, but at some point I came to understand that it really does not matter at the end of the day if it takes longer.

Both sides can point to each other and say hey you are ruining my fun why are you being selfish or whatever. It is a losing battle for both. It being a mmorpg both sides can use that as defense on this same subject.