Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Awha]

My post was more about telling people why they shouldn't expect anyone to be open about their disability with random people in an online game rather than a defense for poor performance. Most people with disabilities experience some manner of prejudice in real life, and as we know online people tend to have a much looser filter when it comes to insensitive comments. When a person knows the kind of things people like me deal with irl, they're more understanding of why we're often quiet about having a disability when in a random group in an online game.

As for contributing to my raid team regardless of disability, I wish that was true. We have had wipes because my finger twitched or my hand locked up at a bad time. We have had to end some raids early or cancel them because I was in too much pain. There was a three week period at the start of the expansion in which I was unable to even play never mind raid. Our raids are only two hours long because of me. But the people I'm with are okay with all of this, we're not a competitive team. We just want to get our kills with some laughs along the way. I'm very lucky to have a team full of good people who are willing to put up with my limitations. Though the flip side is that when my disability doesn't get in the way my performance is typically more than enough to deal with savage so we can make up for lost time when I am doing okay.



Not by all though, some here assume playing badly = must be a leech. Some people have legitimately valid reasons for poor performance and some people's best is a very low bar. I hate it as well when I encounter someone who is performing very badly but my first reaction isn't "omg a leech". I reserve that opinion for when someone is clearly offended that they're expected to have performance that is adequate for the content they're doing. I found in DF that most people make silly mistakes they otherwise would not do or are unaware that they're even making them. While the latter is certainly a problem this does not qualify someone to be seen as knowingly having parasitic behaviour.

That is the thing if someone's bar is that low why is it alright to tell other with higher standards to queue with friends or use PF, but pushing the same standard on those with lower standards gets met with push back?

I really do not care so much how people play, how they play and the reason is on them. Though just because I do not care how they play does not mean I should not kick them from the group when I do not do not want to deal with them.

[Goji1639]

That is the thing if someone's bar is that low why is it alright to tell other with higher standards to queue with friends or use PF, but pushing the same standard on those with lower standards gets met with push back?

If you have higher standards you want to force everyone in the group to play to your standards. If you want to control how other people play their character you should probably make your own group.

If you have lower standards that likely only applies to your own play. You're not going to get mad at someone who's doing optimal rotations and try to force them down to a lower standard.

[Awha]

If you have higher standards you want to force everyone in the group to play to your standards. If you want to control how other people play their character you should probably make your own group.

If you have lower standards that likely only applies to your own play. You're not going to get mad at someone who's doing optimal rotations and try to force them down to a lower standard.

This is the enabling culture people are talking about. Playing poorly does impact the group. Sure the degree of impact may depend on person and which side on you are on. Though one cannot argue in good faith that a players performance does not impact the group.

Sure it sucks getting people to queue with higher standards, but we are told to find friends and do a PF so why not setup a PF for freestyle sam, melee rdm, no tank stance tank and no heal healer. I am sure they will get far. Point remains if one wants to play poorly fine, but if they want to play poorly they should also be told to find friends or use PF.


In the end the same standard should apply, if people want to have higher standards they are told to queue with friends and or use PF.

[linayar]

This is the enabling culture people are talking about. Playing poorly does impact the group. Sure the degree of impact may depend on person and which side on you are on. Though one cannot argue in good faith that a players performance does not impact the group.

No one needs to argue that because the amount of impact for each person is subjective. There is no argument to be made.

Sure it sucks getting people to queue with higher standards, but we are told to find friends and do a PF so why not setup a PF for freestyle sam, melee rdm, no tank stance tank and no heal healer. I am sure they will get far. Point remains if one wants to play poorly fine, but if they want to play poorly they should also be told to find friends or use PF.


In the end the same standard should apply, if people want to have higher standards they are told to queue with friends and or use PF.

You don't choose your party in DF. You choose your party in PF. If you care about who you party with, use the tool that facilitates that.

[KizuyaKatogami]

No one needs to argue that because the amount of impact for each person is subjective. There is no argument to be made.

You don't choose your party in DF. You choose your party in PF. If you care about who you party with, use the tool that facilitates that.

That doesnt change the fact things need to change. Please stop just sweeping things under the rug when theres a very prevalent problem. This isnt even just limited to people not happy with who they get paired with. It's a problem with the game and the things they dont teach that should really be in the tutorial. There is an argument to be made for that.

[Awha]

No one needs to argue that because the amount of impact for each person is subjective. There is no argument to be made.

You don't choose your party in DF. You choose your party in PF. If you care about who you party with, use the tool that facilitates that.

That is my point, if one cares to play a certain way and guarantee that style of play they should use PF or queue with friends. That means if you want to be a freestyle sam, a meled rdm, or a try hard ninja wherever the your cards fall they should use the tools provided by SE.

Thing is when it comes to people with higher standards we are told we should do x y and z but those who wish to do play poorly and mention they were removed they are told it should not have happened, that it is toxic, those people should use PF.

In the end you are right you do not pick the DF so people really should not complain if they are removed from the DF due to playing a certain way that did not mesh with the group. If they want to guarantee how they play queue with friends or use the PF. That is my point the same standard should be applied to both sides.

This was mentioned in the other post. It is subjective in terms to the degree of how an action impacts the group what is not subjective is each action voluntary or involuntary does impact the group. Though I mentioned that part cause the person I mentioned I think I misunderstood them but was saying playing poorly did not impact the group or impact the group in the same way due to the nature of the higher standard tries to dictate how another one plays. Though I was trying to explain that the degree if the impact is moot cause that varies from person to person so we should so focus on what is the core issue that creates the double standard imo. Which is if people want to guarantee a certain style of play only way to go about it is to queue with friends or use the PF. This goes for high low and every in between.

That is all.

[linayar]

That doesnt change the fact things need to change. Please stop just sweeping things under the rug when theres a very prevalent problem. This isnt even just limited to people not happy with who they get paired with. It's a problem with the game and the things they dont teach that should really be in the tutorial. There is an argument to be made for that.

Except I would agree that the game should teach the players more and better. My posts have not been about that, though. Have you misunderstood my posts?

That is my point, if one cares to play a certain way and guarantee that style of play they should use PF or queue with friends. That means if you want to be a freestyle sam, a meled rdm, or a try hard ninja wherever the your cards fall they should use the tools provided by SE.

Thing is when it comes to people with higher standards we are told we should do x y and z but those who wish to do play poorly and mention they were removed they are told it should not have happened, that it is toxic, those people should use PF.

In the end you are right you do not pick the DF so people really should not complain if they are removed from the DF due to playing a certain way that did not mesh with the group. If they want to guarantee how they play queue with friends or use the PF. That is my point the same standard should be applied to both sides.

This was mentioned in the other post. It is subjective in terms to the degree of how an action impacts the group what is not subjective is each action voluntary or involuntary does impact the group. Though I mentioned that part cause the person I mentioned I think I misunderstood them but was saying playing poorly did not impact the group or impact the group in the same way due to the nature of the higher standard tries to dictate how another one plays. Though I was trying to explain that the degree if the impact is moot cause that varies from person to person so we should so focus on what is the core issue that creates the double standard imo. Which is if people want to guarantee a certain style of play only way to go about it is to queue with friends or use the PF. This goes for high low and every in between.

That is all.

Well, while I can see why that would be ideal, I guess it depends on what the majority is like. Just the fact that the NA region has relegated hard contents to PF would make me conclude that they have given up on DF. So, in that case, I would just say go with the flow.

[Awha]

Except I would agree that the game should teach the players more and better. My posts have not been about that, though. Have you misunderstood my posts?

Well, while I can see why that would be ideal, I guess it depends on what the majority is like. Just the fact that the NA region has relegated hard contents to PF would make me conclude that they have given up on DF. So, in that case, I would just say go with the flow.

Maybe but I will still advocate for people who want to guarantee a certain style or level of play should use PF or queue with friends. Also if people run into a style of play they do not agree with or inconvenienced by try their hand at removing them before just accepting the 30 min timer.

Uh, believe it or not, there is a kind of a power fantasy fulfillment in being able to clear the content almost by yourself.

With that said, I'm always too busy pressing my own buttons to notice what others are doing or not doing most of the time unless it becomes really obvious, like stopping a battle obvious. Those are rare, though.

I also did not notice at first that is why I say having installed ACT was one of the best / worse things I have done in this game. Just confirmed my suspensions. Though I do get the desire some have to just go with the flow.