Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Awha]

Pssh everyone I've kicked is so I can have my friend replace them, not because they're bad and losing to the limit break in damage, no... What do you think I am toxic?

Haha Haha that is rich you think I of all people will care if you remove someone from your group? That is priceless thank you for that.

What I am saying the reason why someone is removed should not matter it is subjective from person to person. Though if one insults and harasses them before removing them then I could see how that could create issues.

The transparent comment was because personally i wish I could be like player x you have failed to out damage our healer so we will be removing you from the the group. Sadly ToS encourages silent kicks.

Was not a slight at you I honestly just found it funny cause it is just interesting to be on the other foot even if it was just a misunderstanding.

[SturmChurro]

I enjoy chatting with people far more in FFXIV than I ever did in WoW, that's for sure.

I definitely don't! You can't really just chat with anyone in this game anyway, not worth the risk of getting banned!

Anyway, I actually prefer a more competitive atmosphere in chat. The most fun I can remember in MMO's, like when I used to play SWTOR PvP years ago, was the trash talking back and forth. None of it was ever taken personal, we all had a lot of fun. Seriously. SWTOR was like the wild west back then. GMs didn't really reign in the chat at all! PoT5 (PvP East) was regarded as the most "toxic" server, but I didn't really feel that way. It was my home. Those were some good times, smiling as I am typing this out right now.

Gotta agree on the culture thing, this game's community is very 'carebear'. It's a very hostile environment, if you are someone who just wants to have a little fun.

[Awha]

I definitely don't! You can't really just chat with anyone in this game anyway, not worth the risk of getting banned!

Anyway, I actually prefer a more competitive atmosphere in chat. The most fun I can remember in MMO's, like when I used to play SWTOR PvP years ago, was the trash talking back and forth. None of it was ever taken personal, we all had a lot of fun. Seriously. SWTOR was like the wild west back then. GMs didn't really reign in the chat at all! PoT5 (PvP East) was regarded as the most "toxic" server, but I didn't really feel that way. It was my home. Those were some good times, smiling as I am typing this out right now.

Gotta agree on the culture thing, this game's community is very 'carebear'. It's a very hostile environment, if you are someone who just wants to have a little fun.

Ah SWTOR PvP good times, it was a blast just shit talking people calling people bad just to get them to queue for ranked only to them them struggle with a hard swap comp and blow a player up in a cc chain.

SWTOR could have been something great.

I do miss SWTOR pvp and how honest everyone was. I was an rper but even still the pvp community was a blast.

[SturmChurro]

Ah SWTOR PvP good times, it was a blast just [..] talking people calling people bad just to get them to queue for ranked only to them them struggle with a hard swap comp and blow a player up in a cc chain.

SWTOR could have been something great.

I do miss SWTOR pvp and how honest everyone was. I was an rper but even still the pvp community was a blast.

God, don't remind me! Brings a tear to my eyes thinking of it all. It was so fun! The PvP events too, where we would go into the other factions spawn on some world, or gank players leveling! LOL. Sigh... it really brings a tear to my eye.. Then the servers started dying as they inevitably do, and PvP got merged into PvE... I haven't been able to replicate that same experience in any game since, to be honest. WoW is the closest, to be fair, but it just... ah.. Well, actually in WoW I heard they got rid of PvP servers, last time I played that they had real PvP servers..

FFXIV is really great and all, but it's just missing that competitive spark. It's generally frowned against which is very unfortunate. Player competition is a very good thing for an MMO. Even for PvE content, player should be encouraged to do more, just do better. Everyone here takes everything as like, a personal slight, and they start reporting others knowing how heavy-handed moderation is here.

Kicks are all don't ask don't tell here too. You can kick a player for "difference in playstyles", as long as you don't give the actual reason for it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

You know, after a quick glance through this thread, I have to say: to enable someone is to ignore their toxic behavior and let it happen without repercussions. On an offline POV, you enable someone when say, they're being rude and unpleasant and you go "oh, it's just him". So I could theoretically turn the argument around and say that other MMOs enable unpleasant behavior from metric-obsessed individuals whose only measure of their self-worth lies in a DPS parser.

Basically I think the issue here is one of game culture. Do you want something more competitive that could drive away people who would otherwise pay subs? Or do you want something more inclusive that could annoy people who are more competitive? Given the way competitiveness tends to work in MMOs like WoW, I'd argue that on a profit driven basis, being friendly to the not-so-competitive casuals would make more money than just catering to people who want to be elite.

I enjoy chatting with people far more in FFXIV than I ever did in WoW, that's for sure.

I don’t think anyone in here is really asking anyone to be elite though. We’re asking people to know the basics of their job and know how to aoe in dungeons and properly play their job. That really isn’t asking for anything elite. I’m not expecting people to play as optimal as they can. I’m asking for them to understand the basics of the game so that they aren’t a detriment to groups.

[SenorPatty]

God, don't remind me! Brings a tear to my eyes thinking of it all. It was so fun! The PvP events too, where we would go into the other factions spawn on some world, or gank players leveling! LOL. Sigh... it really brings a tear to my eye.. Then the servers started dying as they inevitably do, and PvP got merged into PvE... I haven't been able to replicate that same experience in any game since, to be honest. WoW is the closest, to be fair, but it just... ah.. Well, actually in WoW I heard they got rid of PvP servers, last time I played that they had real PvP servers..

FFXIV is really great and all, but it's just missing that competitive spark. It's generally frowned against which is very unfortunate. Player competition is a very good thing for an MMO. Even for PvE content, player should be encouraged to do more, just do better. Everyone here takes everything as like, a personal slight, and they start reporting others knowing how heavy-handed moderation is here.

Kicks are all don't ask don't tell here too. You can kick a player for "difference in playstyles", as long as you don't give the actual reason for it.

Idc if this is gonna sound toxic but...I miss the trash talking in swtor pvp that I can't do here. Nothing like meeting the regulars in pvp there and just talking smack to one another. Like, idk how to explain it but its just good ribbing that gets you riled up and made me more motived to kick ass over there.

Sigh

[SturmChurro]

Idc if this is gonna sound toxic but...I miss the trash talking in swtor pvp that I can't do here. Nothing like meeting the regulars in pvp there and just talking smack to one another. Like, idk how to explain it but its just good ribbing that gets you riled up and made me more motived to kick ass over there.

Sigh

Right? "Toxicity" is so subjective anyway. I think trash talking has a time and a place. Thing is though a lot on here won't really get that. Well, in regards to SWTOR, yeah, you really had to be there, at it's height. It really felt like a community! We all pretty much knew each other, rival guilds and everything. I remember having a falling out with one of the guilds I was in, so I joined a rival PvP guild, and we were pretty much good friends! Despite probably a years worth of trash talking. That's community, something I really wish I could find again..

[KizuyaKatogami]

Right? "Toxicity" is so subjective anyway. I think trash talking has a time and a place. Thing is though a lot on here won't really get that. Well, in regards to SWTOR, yeah, you really had to be there, at it's height. It really felt like a community! We all pretty much knew each other, rival guilds and everything. I remember having a falling out with one of the guilds I was in, so I joined a rival PvP guild, and we were pretty much good friends! Despite probably a years worth of trash talking. That's community, something I really wish I could find again..

Unfortunately my generation is full of hyper sensitive people. It's made prevalent in 14's community when you cant even give someone advice without them getting offended or whenever something sad happens in the story they have an emotional break down over pixels. Playful banter would make them create a 10 paragraph essay on why chat should be disabled in every piece of content ;p

[Awha]

Idc if this is gonna sound toxic but...I miss the trash talking in swtor pvp that I can't do here. Nothing like meeting the regulars in pvp there and just talking smack to one another. Like, idk how to explain it but its just good ribbing that gets you riled up and made me more motived to kick ass over there.

Sigh

Aye I miss creating a guild mocking a reg star that would never queue for ranked and turned them into meme of the server. The amount of shit they got because if this would never fly here.

Miss the days were being an asshole was just all part of being on the internet. Now people want to create some safe space of tolerance.

[SturmChurro]

Unfortunately my generation is full of hyper sensitive people. It's made prevalent in 14's community when you cant even give someone advice without them getting offended or whenever something sad happens in the story they have an emotional break down over pixels. Playful banter would make them create a 10 paragraph essay on why chat should be disabled in every piece of content ;p

Well, I think I am also a part of that generation... or at least mine is too.. FFXIV's community is something else, I don't think I've been a part of one so hypersensitive, ever. Even ESO with a ton of Bethesda diehards wasn't this bad, I've got to say. OMG! I've read that, about reception of the story.. Well, I think I've actually been recommended YouTubers crying over the story in this game. Frankly, I don't know why anyone would put that on the internet, but whatever makes them money I guess..

Yes.. even just banter. EVERYTHING is taken as a personal attack here. It's ridiculous. Some players are so involved this is literally like.. their life. It's quite... odd to me. Also, DON'T GET ME STARTED on how chat is/was disabled in ranked PvP in this game... Like WHAT?! Ranked PvP, something that would require teamwork, and coordination. Is.. disabled?