Apparently Yoshi-P thinks larger scale savage content is easier to get in to

[ReynTime]

It doesn't even have to be 4-man.
Stop being so hesitant in making "hard" dungeons a 8-man thing. We had 8 man dungeons. Their only problem was being designed to be easy and being loaded with custscenes

[Dzian]

And this is why I decided not to do savage/extreme content when I started this game. I got tired of having my game "scheduled" when I played FFXI. Not that I don't enjoy a challenge, but if the words "static" or "schedule" come up for certain content in this game, count me out.

Thats more a western community problem than a design one. If the general community used the games tools correctly. DF / RF / PF then you wouldn't need statics or schedules to do the content at all. you could just log in hit raid finder and go..

this is why particiapation is so much higher on the JP side because people use the tools correctly. no statics no schedules. just jump in and go as and when you feel like.

[Saefinn]

Are you serious Yoshi-P? Do they even look at the clear numbers? There's literally more people with the e12s mount (which only 1 out of the 8 people in the clear can get a week) than people with the Cerberus mount (guaranteed per clear)

I can't believe this is the direction this game is moving to. Instead of 4 man savage dungeons it seems like we'll get more large scale savage content which is infinitely harder to schedule.

Edit: Don't forget to mention that larger scale content ALWAYS means easier mechanics. DRS was a complete joke of a "savage" fight. It was at most EX level and that's kinda pushing it.

Source:
https://mogtalk.org/2021/05/07/inter...naoki-yoshida/ Question #2

Looking at the question and answer and I think about it and kinda agree & don't agree with YoshiP, but if they are to do as he says, then please don't gate it behind a huge grind like DRS. Whilst DRS is more accessible than other Savage content in terms of difficulty, it's not more accessible in terms of getting there.

I say "kinda" be I think a more challenging type of 4 man dungeon would be suitable for a progressive difficulty thing, not necessarily savage difficulty like was asked. I don't think it has to be large scale to accommodate the type of people YoshiP is referencing, I've suggested before the idea of 'Challenge difficulty' dungeons, which would sit just under 'EX' in terms of difficulty, not as hard as 'EX' but still enough to push the group.

But I agree in that there is a section that is less accommodated for and that's tougher content that's accessible to casuals (and by extension, semi-casuals).

If you take away EX, Savage Raids, Ultimate and DRS what do we have?
- Normal Raids, they're generally straight forward and easy
- 24 man normal Raids, they're generally straight forward and easy
- Expert Dungeons, they're straight forward and easy.
- Grindy open world content that's not pushing anybody (critical engagements at least are an improvement)

There's nothing in the middle that pushes people, something that's harder than normal content that casuals can progress to that feels accessible. As a semi-casual I feel it.

But I lament that it seems like EX fights have been getting easier. Diamond Weapon I feel like should be the hardest of the Weapon fights, but it's the easiest. And Memoria Misera pushed me a lot more as a healer than Diamond Weapon.

So I'd rather them patch this gap with newer accessible content types than dumbing down existing ones. After all, that's likely what'd happen otherwise. Look at healers in this game, our main complaint is that's exactly what they did to us, instead of making a 4th job that accommodates people that find healing less accessible, they watered down the three we do have.

[Theodric]

It'll be interesting to see how the stat adjustments affect the difficulty of both older and newer content. In many ways, I suspect the tuning of damage, healing and health pools is a large part as to why a lot of content has little 'bite' to it.

[Ceasaria]

Just increase a little bit the difficulty of Normal large scale content (24-48 players), and please give us a difficult 4 man content !

Let us revisit old dungeons (as the Hard versions we had before) and put different paths, boss, rewards.
Each time you enter in it, the path will change, so it's not always the same thing.

So imagine we have 3 different possible boss (1a, 1b, 1c) for the 1st part, 2 different possible boss (2a, 2b) for the 2nd part, and 1 as the final (and maybe, we could have one secret who has some chance to appear instead with some conditions to triggers).
The possibilities : 1a --> 2a --> 3 / 1a --> 2b --> 3 / 1b --> 2a --> 3 ...etc.

Those dungeons would have a great value replay (if rewards follow).

[Dyvid]

Are you serious Yoshi-P? Do they even look at the clear numbers? There's literally more people with the e12s mount (which only 1 out of the 8 people in the clear can get a week) than people with the Cerberus mount (guaranteed per clear)

I can't believe this is the direction this game is moving to. Instead of 4 man savage dungeons it seems like we'll get more large scale savage content which is infinitely harder to schedule.

Edit: Don't forget to mention that larger scale content ALWAYS means easier mechanics. DRS was a complete joke of a "savage" fight. It was at most EX level and that's kinda pushing it.

Source:
https://mogtalk.org/2021/05/07/inter...naoki-yoshida/ Question #2

I wouldn't know, haven't done it yet XD
I agree it seems like there is a disconnect between what the devs think and what the players want.

I would like to see in 6.0 Lv.90 Light Party Dungeons, then change Expert into a Full Party (8-Man) revisiting those Lv.90 dungeons with new paths, new bosses, tougher trash, and new mechanics added.

[Nayout]

Completely unnecessary snark. The OP is absolutely right. DR savage was a stupid idea, and even the vast majority of savage/ultimate raiders will never bother with that garbage content because nobody has the time to organize such massive groups. Creating more of that type of stuff is not what they should be doing in my opinion.

But you never heard the opinion of people that if I completed DR Savage as Xenos or group 1 and 2 of Aether? DR Savage is okay, you know he's not okay? That this content from day 1 had to be synchronized with 24 players instead of 48. Do you know that this is not right? That they continue to believe that the PVE community of this game is great when they have dedicated themselves to killing it

In Primal this last month 3 groups of Delubrum Savage have been formed.

[Alleo]

Everytime I hear about a large scaled savage content I wonder how long it will stay alive...As someone that is not raiding I still think that its much easier to find three or seven other people (if they would introduce 4 man savage content) to try it but will the same hold true to 24 man or even 48 man content? If the raiders are through with it who will be left so that someone interested in it can try it? We already have that problem with more casual but very specific content...who knows if for example you will be able to progress certain parts of Bozja in the next expansions?

I just see it as a absolute nightmare to find so many people if you are a casual without a static. Either the fights will be way to easy to be called savage or we will have another content that will be mostly death after the first few weeks.

[linayar]

the fights will be way to easy to be called savage

Savage is jus a term for harder raids, especially now that we have Ultimate.

With that said, why would it be a problem if it were easier than normal 8-player Savage? I don't think the devs are trying to replace regular Savage content as the main hard difficulty mode. If the OP is correct about it potentially being closer to Extreme difficulty, that should be perfect for so called "midcore" players.

[BunniEclair]

At least it looks like we’re getting deep dungeon back this expansion. I enjoy doing them, and was disappointed we didn’t have one in ShB. It’s definitely harder to do at higher floors than the average 4 man content. It also relies on more than your ability to move to x spot at x time and do x rotation, which I find engaging. The floor save points make it easy to schedule and work with as well.

I hope with the changes they are hopefully making to the project management process, they can revisit the idea of smaller scale difficult content. I agree with Saefinn that there isn’t much in the way of an inbetween for savage and facerollable normal dungeons, and there should be.