Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[SturmChurro]

You're free to believe what you want about people in general, but personally, as I don't see these types of situations happening often, I can't support trying to make this some kind of a reportable offense just because there are people who act like that. Again, we already have the tools to help us with who we play with.

Or rather, I think the worst offenders would already be covered by the rule.

Oh, it should be reportable. Actually it is reportable, they just have to admit to it in chat. It becomes bannable only when they prove intent. It is easy to tell, let's be real, but a player or GM still cannot prove intent. I just think it's hilarious how many players in this game will defend this sort of behavior. So many players of this game are underperforming that nobody wants to chance an innocent new or learning, disabled, whatever player in the crossfire.

[linayar]

a player or GM still cannot prove intent.

And that's the point.

I just think it's hilarious how many players in this game will defend this sort of behavior. So many players of this game are underperforming that nobody wants to chance an innocent new or learning, disabled, whatever player in the crossfire.

Not putting up a tank stance as a main tank or not using a job stone is more severe than simply underperforming, and there is a fine line for some people to what they will tolerate.

[SturmChurro]

And that's the point.

Not putting up a tank stance as a main tank or not using a job stone is more severe than simply underperforming, and there is a fine line for some people to what they will tolerate.

You know what the most ridiculous part of all my arguments in this thread are? I am arguing in general! I might grumble every so often, but I have a very high tolerance for these players! I don't leave unless an instance literally cannot be completed; unless the entire rest of the party leaves, I will stay with the remaining players. If the healer leaves, and even if the DPS players are objectively underperforming, I will pull groups one by one and sacrifice myself over and over so we can slowly progress in the dungeon instead of waiting around. Nor do I EVER kick players, unless they are actually AFK or offline.

Now, that my humble bragging, and added context is over: I choose to tolerate such players, but I recognize when someone is doing it intentionally. Though, as someone brought it up on the last page, I should add, the one thing I have zero tolerance for is the sheer amount of mentors underperforming. These same mentors encouraging bad play. I may have a tolerance, but you know what I don't do? Encourage bad play like so much of this playerbase - which is the focal point of this thread. There is a problem in this community, that allows for griefers, or players to NEVER improve. As if there is no issue wasting other player's time.

[linayar]

These same mentors encouraging bad play. I may have a tolerance, but you know what I don't do? Encourage bad play like so much of this playerbase - which is the focal point of this thread.

Considering most people are silent throughout a run, or talk about anything other than the fight, I'd say so much of the player base tolerates, rather than encourages, any form of play, as long as it doesn't interfere with clearing the content. And even when there is a wipe, I would say most people would be willing to try again as long as there is progress being made. There are plenty of people who would help when the need arises, and I've never seen people encourage anyone to not put on job stone or not AoE or not use tank stance.

[SturmChurro]

Considering most people are silent throughout a run..

nd even when there is a wipe, I would say most people would be willing to try again as long as there is progress being made.

I don't really think so, honestly. I see players chatting more often than not in most duties I've done... If we are doing like.. LoTA that's where I've actually seen the most "toxic" chat weirdly enough, well outside of like frontlines, or Bozja. I'm usually the one being called out in most duties for staying silent, as in actually being called out by name. No, I see people leave instances with actual new players all the time, actually quite often in dungeons.

You know what the funny thing is? A lot of the players with the biggest attitudes are the players choosing to play really badly, it's a very odd phenomenon.

and I've never seen people encourage anyone to not put on job stone or not AoE or not use tank stance.

Unfortunately, I have seen this. More often than not really. Healer DPS should be added here as well. Generally, I have seen, if there is a player trying to urge another to use aoe skills, or (especially) healer DPS they receive a lot of backlash. I've even seen them be kicked, for being "toxic" or whatever. A kick vote at the very least.

[linayar]

I see people leave instances with actual new players all the time, actually quite often in dungeons.

I don't run dungeons as often as other contents, but that seems to be too much. I don't know how you are getting matched with people who leave dungeons that often.

[SturmChurro]

I don't run dungeons as often as other contents, but that seems to be too much. I don't know how you are getting matched with people who leave dungeons that often.

Tell me about it! It doesn't really matter if a DPS leaves, but when healers decide to leave it's the worst. Granted, occasionally it is my fault when a player leaves. I usually pull very large. I'll give my party two wipes before I pull small, if the healer and DPS cannot handle it. I'm sure they think it's my fault we are wiping, but I've done those same pulls dozens of times. It's not me..

I should highlight this post, because it's exactly what I do!

This whole thread does remind me though. I don't coddle: I put any sprouts I am helping through trials of fire, pushing them on pulls that would normally be reserved for veterans. The reason? I want them to commit errors and learn while in the presence of a friendly party who is willing to help so that they won't be making these same errors in the company of the elitists such as those who have aired their laundry in this thread, who may see no issue in kicking/attacking/insulting them and otherwise discourage them from playing further simply because 'bah, this person is being a leech! screw them!'