Criticism of Shadowbringers and the hostility there in

[strawberrycake]

Making improvements and changes for the betterment of the game isn’t making it a completely different game. Its for the benefit of both the game, the devs, and the players.The game WILL die if nothing changes and criticism isn’t allowed and it’s just backhanded like it has been in the past. You can use most other failed mmos or even games in general to see that trend. A disconnect from the playerbase and the devs is what causes that and in this case it’ll be stemming from the community’s inability to take criticism on things. Just look at the Scottzone situation.

Yeah no one ever talks about how the FF community literally sends death threats when people talk about the game being better

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yeah no one ever talks about how the FF community literally sends death threats when people talk about the game being better

People in every community do that, it's not exclusive to ff. And anyone sending death threats over entertainment or hobbies or anything really are people who need to seek mental help.


People literally riot in the streets over sporting events...

[strawberrycake]

People in every community do that, it's not exclusive to ff. And anyone sending death threats over entertainment or hobbies or anything really are people who need to seek mental help.


People literally riot in the streets over sporting events...

And in a lot of those cases people have lost their accounts and were banned from games, said sports goers were banned from future games and arrested.

I'm not saying only FF does it, but I dont think we've ever seen anyone punished for it.

[BlitzAceRush]

People in every community do that, it's not exclusive to ff. And anyone sending death threats over entertainment or hobbies or anything really are people who need to seek mental help.

And hardly represents all of the community, or I guess those threads that appear with the story of the one raider who was really mean to someone suddenly means all raiders are now evil jerks who only care about numbers and not people. People not agreeing with something or having an opposing viewpoint is not the same as not having the ability to take criticism. Honestly I get a lot of the people have good intentions in this thread, but acting like the game, the game that's doing better than it ever has is in serious trouble and you're only trying to help and why would anyone oppose that? Just makes it come across like you think you have magic answers that are so obvious that you're baffled no one else can see them.
The game is not perfect, nothing is, and they've said they're going to need to invest in it's future if it's going to go on for 10 more years, but everything we've been talking about is just subjective options, your ideas might make things better, could make them worse, mine could be horrible, all I do know is the game has done nothing but grow since it clawed its ways out of the mess that was 1.0, so it must be doing something right, and seeing as it's still growing, its still doing fine.
Though there is plenty to talk about, ideas to share, it's just easier without the "can't take criticism" or shutting eachother down with fringe cases, like death threats that in no ways represent the community, hell, we don't even, we're just a tiny little pool who like to be a vocal.

[LisSquid]

Yeah no one ever talks about how the FF community literally sends death threats when people talk about the game being better

I don't think it's fair to not highlight the hostility on both sides (perhaps fueled by it). I remember getting kicked from a discord for saying I didn't like such and such character, or that the story of 14 wasn't a masterstroke of genius. Or that such and such content wasn't up to SE's potential. Just look at any thread about Viera and Hrothgar problems and you'll see some intense hostility that we dare ask for the developer's time that was promised to us. Hostility in as much as the forum rules allow, that is. Things have gotten nastier in other corners of the net.

There's so much infighting over obvious issues with the game, and I can't help but think it's a sort of selfishness where if it's not a problem to you then it's not a problem at all. It's an issue with removing the MMO out of the MMORPG, and we really should be in solidarity over wanting the best gaming experience for everyone.

[strawberrycake]

I don't think it's fair to not highlight the hostility on both sides (perhaps fueled by it). I remember getting kicked from a discord for saying I didn't like such and such character, or that the story of 14 wasn't a masterstroke of genius. Or that such and such content wasn't up to SE's potential. Just look at any thread about Viera and Hrothgar problems and you'll see some intense hostility that we dare ask for the developer's time that was promised to us. Hostility in as much as the forum rules allow, that is. Things have gotten nastier in other corners of the net.

There's so much infighting over obvious issues with the game, and I can't help but think it's a sort of selfishness where if it's not a problem to you then it's not a problem at all. It's an issue with removing the MMO out of the MMORPG, and we really should be in solidarity over wanting the best gaming experience for everyone.

Its something I've been guilty of at times myself honestly, I still work on that day by day. The issues presented in the game should be something we're all coming together about. Its why I think Hrothgar and Viera should get more attention and Creative Unit 3 should be more transparent, its why all the interviews should be on the front page of the launcher and posted on the Lodestone regularly. Its why I'm saying people arent wrong for liking the new content, simply that it could have been handled better.

The worst part is that its all symptoms of more then just covid ruining things. Like how the 3 Ultimates promised for the expansion wouldn't have worked out, becuase of how much dev time it would need to even make them 6 months each minimum, and then all three would need to be rebalanced going into EW, thats a massive oversight on their end. That only makes me wonder about other aspects of the game. And its why I ask why we even fight each other when we can quite literally come together and ask why from SE directly given they are the parent company.

Also if anyone kicks you from a server for not liking characters or saying its not that grrat of a story then good riddence, thats just dumb and mean.

[SturmChurro]

I don't think it's fair to not highlight the hostility on both sides (perhaps fueled by it). I remember getting kicked from a discord for saying I didn't like such and such character, or that the story of 14 wasn't a masterstroke of genius. Or that such and such content wasn't up to SE's potential. Just look at any thread about Viera and Hrothgar problems and you'll see some intense hostility that we dare ask for the developer's time that was promised to us. Hostility in as much as the forum rules allow, that is. Things have gotten nastier in other corners of the net.

There's so much infighting over obvious issues with the game, and I can't help but think it's a sort of selfishness where if it's not a problem to you then it's not a problem at all. It's an issue with removing the MMO out of the MMORPG, and we really should be in solidarity over wanting the best gaming experience for everyone.

Anything criticizing the main story specifically, or beloved characters is usually met with some intense backlash. Especially, suggestions for improvements to the new player experience, because ARR is God's gift to Earth.

Oh, that's just a sadly normal FFXIV players reaction to anyone mentioning WoW. Although, that is changing as more people finally stop using 14 as their side game and completely move over. Honestly, I'd love to have a discussion about why there's so much hatred for a game that isn't relevant to 14 outside of being another mmo with a similar combat style (surprise, this is why it's appealing to WoW players).

The hate is nearly one sided, as I've seen tons of friendly banter about 14 jobs in trade/lfg chat on WoW. I guess since it's a less volatile topic than whatever meta was happening in that game. You MENTION WoW in 14 and you're looking to get some paragraphs of someone having an absolute meltdown. HOWEVER I have collected a bunch of fresh sprouts from WoW who are having a blast.

Ahem, sorry for that tangent, but that example has very little to do with criticizing 14 and all to do with saying WoW and 14 in the same breath..

Many FFXIV die hards see it as a competition between the two games, and they yearn to see WoW fail. I think it's a sense of jealousy that WoW is still the more popular MMO, despite FFXIV, in their minds, being the best game ever(!). Aside from that, I've seen many who put themselves on a pedestal, because they are an FFXIV player, rather than a WoW player. I've also read fears that the WoW player will ruin this game, and "they should stick to WoW instead". I honestly don't think I've seen such an intense sense of tribalism than when it comes to some FFXIV player's takes on WoW.

[LisSquid]

I've also read fears that the WoW player will ruin this game, and "they should stick to WoW instead". I honestly don't think I've seen such an intense sense of tribalism than when it comes to some FFXIV player's takes on WoW.

I want to highlight this part here, because it's the most hilarious part to me. There is such a giant overlap of WoW and 14 players, but people keep their mouth shut about it while in Eorzea. I recently put my sub on hibernation, but WoW players have always been here. There was never a Grand Exodus of refugees. 14 was just more of a game to relax in, and many of my guildmates call it a "warm hug" after the mythic slog. Especially since 14 doesn't demand you run the hamster wheel to stay relevant.

[Nayout]

Anything criticizing the main story specifically, or beloved characters is usually met with some intense backlash. Especially, suggestions for improvements to the new player experience, because ARR is God's gift to Earth. .

Because you are the perfect example of people who instead of "improving" something, I want to change it, which is precisely the problem that many have.

I am one of those who believes that the game continues to have the same content, the problem is that it is more scattered than in other expansions and the problem that people have when criticizing this seems almost stupid to me.

Why should they leave content that we ALREADY had in post of other content? This type of "make everyone happy" tactics even when you don't have the resources only makes the community much more divided and they blame each other that we are losing content. The game should ALWAYS aim to preserve what it has while it aspires to have more things but of course the community of this game has become accustomed to having to leave "x" content to have something different creating fights in the community .

[KizuyaKatogami]

Because you are the perfect example of people who instead of "improving" something, I want to change it, which is precisely the problem that many have.

I am one of those who believes that the game continues to have the same content, the problem is that it is more scattered than in other expansions and the problem that people have when criticizing this seems almost stupid to me.

Why should they leave content that we ALREADY had in post of other content? This type of "make everyone happy" tactics even when you don't have the resources only makes the community much more divided and they blame each other that we are losing content. The game should ALWAYS aim to preserve what it has while it aspires to have more things but of course the community of this game has become accustomed to having to leave "x" content to have something different creating fights in the community .

I think this brings up a very god point tbh. There's been this notion given that we need to sacrifice a piece of content for something else when... usually whats being asked isnt even that much. Again, that falls on the dev side of things with 14 not getting the funding it should be but believe it or not there's people who believe 14 gets a ton of money and it all totally goes towards the game...yeah right. In reality though, at least with a lot of things ive seen the community ask for, it really shouldnt be that farfetched for it to be added without being at the expense of some other form of content. I think thats why ShB just feels really bad content wise. Theres been a shift in how much has been sacrificed for other pieces of content that it just feels muddled and wrong. Especially if you compare it to Stormblood which added a good variety of things(big things mind you like the world visiting,diving,and a whole housing ward).