Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[SenorPatty]

That is the issue. That gameplay design is not sustainable, sometimes the strong cannot carry the weak nor should they. It's a corner SE has backed themselves into by relying on good players to always pick up the slack for the not good players. It can only go on for so long.

SE hasn't backed themselves into anything in that regard. People go on about their business as usual, maybe they have a bad encounter and they vent or they brush it off and move on. Maybe they start petitions about the state of the game and how the community needs to do better and all that. But hardly is SE feeling any brunt on that end. If anything, their worries is fueled by accessibility, which although might hurt people who feel like day to day, they're carrying the load, it clearly supersedes said players because they're in the few. If this game design model was such weight the company couldn't bear, the 3 previous expansions wouldn't have been the success they are and they would've folded a long time ago.

Put it this way: time and time again, amongst the exagerated outcries of "players are bad, woe is me", you actually had reasonable requests. Things like asking for Halls of Intermediate that could teach post-50 players about recurring mechs and maybe some advanced strats. Asked for PF filters to so trap parties could be avoided. Asked for job stones to be auto-equipped as a feature or simply have the system deny entry to a duty if they didn't have it on. Asked for dgns to provide gear that matches the role the player came in. And asked so many more things in that manner that basically at the very least would minimize or eliminate conflict that would result from these things.

And guess what? They have done some. We did get the dgns that provide gear loot ( to some extent) and that in turn at least helped those who couldn't or did not want to afford gear to keep up. We even got some minimum ilvl requirements on some leveling dgns to go witht that. We got the pf filters (though I'm pretty sure they could be refined further). Heck, we even got a reset enmity feature on dummies, which was a request that I was pretty certain was low on their to-do list.

The overhaul of fine-tuning this game to make it "harder" so that people are forced to learn and improve is just not going to happen. It's useless crusade for the single reason that it's not hurting SE's wallet. They go with majority, they go with trends and they go with what works, while slowly delivering qols every now and then that reduces social conflicts that arise from "the skilled" vs "the non-skilled". The ship for "harder game makes for better players" has set sail a long time ago. You're not going to convince the company redirect their resources on making it so. You're not convince the playerbase because the playerbase typical main interest is the msq and whatever other rides there are in the game that really don't demand much of them. This leaves only the high-end duties, which is frequented by a much smaller section of the playerbase and thus leaves us with regular duties where everyone generally meets for the day.

You've been disappointed with the community for years, something which you yourself has admitted. Idk how anyone can continue playing a mmo game for years with perpetual disappointment about the community, much less vent about it on a regular basis. Like a really bad case of domestic violence where the playerbase is your constant abuser but you refuse to leave it because you think it'll change. You're already jaded and cynic so it's not like you actually have real hope about it either so, at the risk of being slapped with a GCBTW label...

What are you doing here?

[Caurcas]

To answer your question, its because 14 had the best gameplay loop at endgame. The rotational complexity puts alot of other mmos to shame. However, it is also a shame they keep reducing these every xpac. As for a more practical solution to my "woes" SE needs to put in more roadblocks you have to clear to progress. Lock DF until you do you job quest. Lock people from participating unless they are of adequate ilvl. Lock people from queuing at 30 if they dont have their job stone equipped, and stop them from gaining xp until they do so. It's so easy to be adequate at this game, its unreal players aren't for the most part. This might just be a NA problem though.

[Krotoan]

That is the issue. That gameplay design is not sustainable, sometimes the strong cannot carry the weak nor should they. It's a corner SE has backed themselves into by relying on good players to always pick up the slack for the not good players. It can only go on for so long.

Like.. 8 years?


seems to be working OK. You leaving this game.. in fact.. if every elitist left this game.. it would still survive pretty decently.

[strawberrycake]

That is the issue. That gameplay design is not sustainable, sometimes the strong cannot carry the weak nor should they. It's a corner SE has backed themselves into by relying on good players to always pick up the slack for the not good players. It can only go on for so long.

I wouldn't say that. This is the exact reason why most of the high end players don't play with casuals, this is why theres an ultimate discord, a savage discord, that way they avoid interaction with players who are usually braindead and can't mitigate right or heal properly.

The only time you see most of the high end players is day one for new content, and even then they usually have pre-existing groups they prefer to play with.

I would say the bigger issue is not making your own community and making sure it caters to your own needs. Because in WoW, ESO, and so many other games, a lot of the players who care for performance, avoid most of the casual scene like the plague. And I've recently started doing the same again, its better for my enjoyment, and I don't have to carry all the time on my healer or tank, or crap out the majority of the damage all the time.

In time the game will require people to pay more attention, But Shadowbringers was purposely dumbed down, Yoshi-P even stated so in the showcase, there is currently an overflow issue with the game, it basically means that the numbers are getting too big and bloated for the server and engine, so they essentially gutted the game because they didnt have an imediate fix for everything. The games scaling will be changed going into Endwalker, and a lot of content will not be as easy as it was. So heres to people having to play the game again.

But all in all just make your own community, start an FC or a CWLS of like minded people and your enjoyment of the game will go up drastically. That way you're not suffering and all of the players who wanna spam one button on MCH or DNC can also have their fun.

[SturmChurro]

Like.. 8 years?


seems to be working OK. You leaving this game.. in fact.. if every elitist left this game.. it would still survive pretty decently.

I'd say that SE has pretty much chosen their hill. They cut an entire Ultimate too, and the game is growing regardless.

[strawberrycake]

I'd say that SE has pretty much chosen their hill. They cut an entire Ultimate too, and the game is growing regardless.

They still want to do multiple an expansion, the schedule for 3 was just a bad idea from the start with the work load. Making 3 ultimates, plus the redevelopment of 3 ultimates when the team for battle content is literally just 4 guys and their interns is p bad. SO there was no hill, more so a "We literally don;t have the time and people for this" kinda deal. And from what was said the second ultimate was almost done, but they would rather wait and polish it over dropping half baked content.

Edit: if anyone reads the interviews for how Eden normal and savage was made, the battle content team was well manned for storm blood, and gutted for unknown reasons(FF16) for shadowbringers So its easy to assume they might get most of the original team back for endwalker.

Keep in mind Covid and FF16 has drastically changed how they planned to handle this expansion. So losing 2 ultimates this expansion was a sad reality, on top of the bad scheduling from the beginning on their end.

Edit 2: They also cut a lot of casual content this expansion as well, Hildabrand, Deepdungeons, Multiple Dungeons per patch, Being able to contribute to the Firmament with battle jobs and not just gather jobs and crafting jobs. So both sides have taken loses this expansion as a whole. I would wager casuals took more then the hardcore players, We only lost one piece of content with the other 3 ultimates still being highly replayable.

[strawberrycake]

Like.. 8 years?


seems to be working OK. You leaving this game.. in fact.. if every elitist left this game.. it would still survive pretty decently.

Theres Elitists on boths sides for what its worth, and both can leave, casual and hardcore

[strawberrycake]

To answer your question, its because 14 had the best gameplay loop at endgame. The rotational complexity puts alot of other mmos to shame. However, it is also a shame they keep reducing these every xpac. As for a more practical solution to my "woes" SE needs to put in more roadblocks you have to clear to progress. Lock DF until you do you job quest. Lock people from participating unless they are of adequate ilvl. Lock people from queuing at 30 if they dont have their job stone equipped, and stop them from gaining xp until they do so. It's so easy to be adequate at this game, its unreal players aren't for the most part. This might just be a NA problem though.

Its funny because othet games employ similar methods to ensure players aren't hurting others experiences, But SE is always the black sheep.

[Penthea]

That is the issue. That gameplay design is not sustainable, sometimes the strong cannot carry the weak nor should they.

How often do you come across DF groups that fall apart due to being unable to finish content? I can't even remember the last time I saw a DF group disband.

If you think the strong shouldn't carry the weak then frankly you're not a team player. Even among the best players there are times when the stronger have to help the weaker players. Everyone has a bad day, makes mistakes or encounter some mechanic that gives them trouble. Being part of a team means you pool your skills and resources together to lift up the whole team, not be stroppy and refuse to help the team simply because of your ego. There are of course limits to how much carrying is acceptable but from the way you talk it appears you think any shred of extra work for you is unacceptable.

And if the design is unsustainable then why has it been continuing fine since ARR and the game has only become more popular? Really starting to think you're just on some trip to indirectly praise yourself instead of trying to solve an actual problem. All your posts can be summed up as "I'm great and I'm allergic to anyone who isn't as great as I am".

[Vinupra-Rosa]

That is the issue. That gameplay design is not sustainable, sometimes the strong cannot carry the weak nor should they. It's a corner SE has backed themselves into by relying on good players to always pick up the slack for the not good players. It can only go on for so long.

Using this 'strong and weak' language you are using...

Look. It IS the sustainable option. If you have the strong grouped with the weak, then the weak can get through duties they wouldn't have been able to and, perhaps, learn through observation what the strong do and what makes them strong. Some won't learn, some will perform so badly that the run is impossible, some need to be taught during the run but their chances are better this way than not. All for an inconvenience -often minor outside of exacting circumstances- on the side of the strong. In the long run this results in more people playing, and more people getting better at what they're doing.

Meanwhile, if you group weak with weak, strong with strong, the strong will become a 'privileged' class who enjoy their 'good' fellows' company and flawless runs. But the weak? They would suffer - - there would be no role models do demonstrate how to be better (and look, as tank I can vouch that watching others tank had taught me a lot, same with a lot of people i know; don't dismiss this with 'bah people won't learn a thing!') and their duties would be far worse than they are now. They would clear far less often. You might end up watching dungeon runs take 40 minutes or more. Overall, their experience is going to be downright horrible and SE would lose a LOT of players with this. And there would be less people getting better, too.

Again, if you don't want to play with the rabble, do your roulettes as a premade. THAT is an option.

You're basically being outright elitist and newb-shaming at this point, even if indirectly. I can't help but understand now why your Novice Network doesn't seem to welcome you (given your frequent complaints insinuating such); people like these end up being ostracised / disliked in my server's Novice Network too. (It is, after all, a Novice Network; it's the least appropriate place for one to shame novices for being novices)