Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[linayar]

Or rather maybe people should be more attentive to the tutorials and the messages of the game before entering a dungeon?

Your ideal expectation of what others should do before entering a dungeon won't help you once you're already inside the dungeon.

The OP asked what can be done about it, and hoping that others would do what you want them to do without you (and other people) having to encourage them to do so is unrealistic.

[Nayout]

Your ideal expectation of what others should do before entering a dungeon won't help you once you're already inside the dungeon.

The OP asked what can be done about it, and hoping that others would do what you want them to do without you (and other people) having to encourage them to do so is unrealistic.

And that's the reason why every day I always have to kick people from dutys

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

The frustration are relatable. But other than that, I don’t see it changing nor do I have any high hopes for it.

Go in with premades/friends of similar minds, leave when things go south, or lower your expectations.

Pick your poison, basically.

[strawberrycake]

The frustration are relatable. But other than that, I don’t see it changing nor do I have any high hopes for it.

Go in with premades/friends of similar minds, leave when things go south, or lower your expectations.

Pick your poison, basically.

This basically my current approach

[Lanadra]

And that's the reason why every day I always have to kick people from dutys

If you legit have to kick people every day, I would say you're the problem. I pretty much never have to kick people and I do everything through DF with whatever randos the game gives me.

[MilkieTea]

If you legit have to kick people every day, I would say you're the problem. I pretty much never have to kick people and I do everything through DF with whatever randos the game gives me.

There's a saying that goes: "If it smells like s*** everywhere you go, it's time to check your shoes."

If you're having issues with every or almost every DF, it's time to analyze yourself and accept that maybe you're the problem.

[Saefinn]

There's a saying that goes: "If it smells like s*** everywhere you go, it's time to check your shoes."

If you're having issues with every or almost every DF, it's time to analyze yourself and accept that maybe you're the problem.

/thread

As the responses keep coming in, and having read alot of them. I see why NA/EU can't have nice things and are so far behind JP. Maybe they shouldn't ever listen to us.

Dare I say, your responses have been pretty telling too as to why it's roughly half the groups you get into are 'bad' when I've not see it as that high.

The game already has an option for you to avoid this if it's so intolerable for you.

People who don't meet your standards play the game. People get different things out of the game to you also play. Me? I prefer to help them, because I think it's better, especially if people pay it forward. It was the principle I was met with by FFXI's community back when I was bad at MMO's and once I "got gud" I paid it forward in helping others and have carried the same attitude over and in my experience of this game's community, that's what it usually is but with some bad eggs, but not as many as you imply. That I think is way more positive than "you're bad, stick me with somebody who isn't".

But that said if you prefer to avoid them because you have some nihilistic perspective on this game's community then that's your prerogative, you can make your own groups where you can be more selective than DF.

[Hikelos]

snip.

This has been a problem for years now, innumerable constant discussions about it, and yet we still get people deflecting away from the actual problem by pretending this is an issue about "gameplay performance".
The performance of the average player is only a symptom of the larger issue of community behaviour and ToS enforcement empowering the worst people among the playerbase.

Nobody is complaining about sub-par performance such as messing up your rotation, or missing a mudra, or missing a GCD, what OP and everyone else is talking about is people adamantly refusing to meet the very bare minimum.
And read that carefully, not "Failing", but "Refusing".
Adding to that, as others have said in this thread and as I know to be the case, a lot of the time these people will chastise you for trying to help someone who's making honest mistakes, which further exacerbates the problem and 'infects' new players with this mentality.

[Saefinn]

Nobody is complaining about sub-par performance such as messing up your rotation, or missing a mudra, or missing a GCD, what OP and everyone else is talking about is people adamantly refusing to meet the very bare minimum.
And read that carefully, not "Failing", but "Refusing".
Adding to that, as others have said in this thread and as I know to be the case, a lot of the time these people will chastise you for trying to help someone who's making honest mistakes, which further exacerbates the problem and 'infects' new players with this mentality.

And I struggle to believe that this accounts for half of people's encounters as suggested by OP. I acknowledge this exists (because I've encountered it), but I struggle to believe it's as big as made out. But yes, when they do it, it's wrong and a bad attitude and I have called people out who do this.

And in the 8 years I've been playing and offering my help, it's a small percentage of people who have chastised in return or refused to listen. And also not near half the DF groups I go in are 'bad' runs. Some don't know mechanics, particularly those who're new, but I found if I just explain the bits people are more likely to get wrong in the fights where mechanics are less obvious, I get more successes first pull than failures, indicating that people do listen.

But there's an attitude I've found throughout my time in playing MMO's that basically is "noobs don't listen and they'll always be terrible", but I tend to find it's the minority. And to some people, putting others down IS them trying to help and then said people wonder why people don't listen, which let's face it people don't tend to respond to that. I also find people have varying levels of what they consider acceptable performance, you'll see it on these forums too. OP's attitude if anything comes across less of a case of people who "refuse" but people who don't meet certain expectations.

And as a healer main, watching the complaints people have about healers, the most common one is about healers who refuse to heal and just DPS. Knowing how you practice and improve as a healer and with there being a DPS expectation, I end up taking the claim people are refusing with a pinch of salt, unless the person actively has said "I refuse to heal, I need my DPS bro". I replied to one such post earlier, so I'll just link my response to show what I mean than repeat it here. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5548324

I don't get how OP is what the community made them and somehow I've not developed the same apparent disdain. Whilst to a degree I could think "maybe OP is just THAT unlucky" but I've read their attitude about other players, I am more convinced maybe it's a case of "a little from column A & a little from column B"

[SenorPatty]

If you legit have to kick people every day, I would say you're the problem. I pretty much never have to kick people and I do everything through DF with whatever randos the game gives me.

That's what I'm thinking as well. Back in sb, i used to run df roulettes with some raiders from my fc back then and rarely did we run into players being detrimental to the run or sub performing badly. They just used regular rotations, they used most of their job kit, nothing optimal but even that was more than enough. Today, nothing's really changed from those times.

Something is not being said or admitted from those people who have bad luck every day or run into terribad skilled players everyday. Like honestly, every day man? If that's true, my condolences to that person's headstate. Imagine selecting a roulette and already dreading with disappointment and having votekick on speedial