Shadowbringers Paladin: Complaints, Feedback, and Suggestions

[Axxion]

No reason to give PLD an offensive option to their gauge, otherwise they'll never use Sheltron, Intervention, or Cover except in super niche scenarios, where using Cover would give PLD more uptime, to outweigh the damage lost from the offensive spender.

question how cover give more uptime?( i really dont know)

Assuming here unless you cover the mt then give intervention so that you take less damage. The reason why i said more offensive is because you cant really Shelton as on ot unless you have cover up and that sits on 2 mins and it takes 50 gauge ( still up to this day i dont understand why they did this)

[TouchandFeel]

Pld also needs an offensive off the gauge

If you give PLD an offensive ability that uses gauge, then any usage of a gauge-based defensive ability will be seen as a dps loss and avoided as much as possible which will screw up the balance of PLD's defensive capabilities.

There is a reason that resources such as job gauges are isolated to only defensive or offensive abilities on jobs, or reimburse a free offensive for a defensive usage in the case of TBN on DRK. The value of defense and the value of offense do not correlate and translate directly between each other because they are inherently different and when you force them to be payed for in the same resource, you force their value to have to be weighed against each other which as already established is problematic. With the "damage is king" meta of this game, value will always be skewed towards offense and therefore undervaluing defense, and so when given the choice on what to spend something on players will always be inclined to go with the offensive option at the exclusion of the defensive option.

The only way I could see making an offensive ability for PLD that costs gauge work would be if it was also gated by a long enough recast timer that it would spread out and restrict the usage of the offensive ability enough that it would not interfere much with the necessary regular usage of defensive abilities and their gauge consumption.

[Axxion]

If you give PLD an offensive ability that uses gauge, then any usage of a gauge-based defensive ability will be seen as a dps loss and avoided as much as possible which will screw up the balance of PLD's defensive capabilities.

There is a reason that resources such as job gauges are isolated to only defensive or offensive abilities on jobs, or reimburse a free offensive for a defensive usage in the case of TBN on DRK. The value of defense and the value of offense do not correlate and translate directly between each other because they are inherently different and when you force them to be payed for in the same resource, you force their value to have to be weighed against each other which as already established is problematic. With the "damage is king" meta of this game, value will always be skewed towards offense and therefore undervaluing defense, and so when given the choice on what to spend something on players will always be inclined to go with the offensive option at the exclusion of the defensive option.

The only way I could see making an offensive ability for PLD that costs gauge work would be if it was also gated by a long enough recast timer that it would spread out and restrict the usage of the offensive ability enough that it would not interfere much with the necessary regular usage of defensive abilities and their gauge consumption.

It would be fine if it was on CD, im not saying it has to be spamable whats so ever just something in between

[Kabooa]

question how cover give more uptime?( i really dont know)

Assuming here unless you cover the mt then give intervention so that you take less damage. The reason why i said more offensive is because you cant really Shelton as on ot unless you have cover up and that sits on 2 mins and it takes 50 gauge ( still up to this day i dont understand why they did this)

Mechanics that require the tank to disengage from melee can instead be handled by a ranged class should it be a bait mechanic. The paladin covers the ranged class.

[Axxion]

Mechanics that require the tank to disengage from melee can instead be handled by a ranged class should it be a bait mechanic. The paladin covers the ranged class.

to take the damage?

but then im going to ask then why not use intervention than if the range is baiting? or why not let the healers use there barriers?

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Said damage may be tank buster level, thus Intervention would not nearly be enough to mitigate. Whereas Cover, redirects that damage to the Paladin, who can easily deal with that damage, while remaining at max melee range.

[Undeadfire]

question how cover give more uptime?( i really dont know)

Assuming here unless you cover the mt then give intervention so that you take less damage. The reason why i said more offensive is because you cant really Shelton as on ot unless you have cover up and that sits on 2 mins and it takes 50 gauge ( still up to this day i dont understand why they did this)

It only gives uptime currently in E12S Lions, Cover the Healer for Big Lion they drop the puddle but you treat the damage as you're baiting it.

[Haru_Yume]

made an account just for this post.

as someone who loves pld and has done savage/ultimates, im so glad that someone's finally addressed the blatant problems that has plagued pld's playstyle.
a pretty damn good detailed post too, and you've listed out ALL of the issues on pld that other "tank" content creators i know of dont even know what they are talking about.

words cant express my gratitude, but cheers to you friendo, and thank you for your post.

[Vyrerus]

Not to be a jerk, but the OP reads to me like, "Make PLD effortless, perfect, and how I want it to be." rather than actual, real improvements. Like it's one thing to want something annoying about a job to go away, and another thing entirely to want it to be molded in your own imagining of it.

I, for one, think Spirits Within has always looked slick and cool. Circle of Scorn is a very satisfying slam with holy columns everywhere, and looks pretty dang cool to me.

PLD has both a long, sustained physical rotation keeping in line with what it has been for years, and it was the progenitor of the x5 spam window thing with Requiescat + Holy Spirit, so it already has a "punchier" item in its rotation.

The idea behind Requiescat is that it is turning the sword into a better aetheric conductor. It's not giving it the ability to shoot energy. It's still a melee at heart, and it's the only tank that has the least punishment for break away, due to having a full range GCD to use while away. I understand the desire to not be losing those auto attacks, but that's deliberate and rightly so. No mage in the game has auto attacks, after all. You're asking for PLD's magic phase to make it a better caster than every caster in the game, lol.

As far as the gauge goes, yeah, it's not as impactful as it could be. It is sorta bland and weird compared to the other thanks where gauges are much more significant since they are part of the DPS rotation for those tanks. However, it's nice to have another resource outside of MP that doesn't interrupt the rotation at all, and can only benefit you and your team. As far as it being generated by auto attacks, well, that's basically just a cooldown timer that freezes if you have to move away. Ten auto attacks to use a skill, which is roughly 22.4 seconds of engagement, since they make all PLD swords 2.24 delay since mid Heavensward. As long as engagement isn't interrupted by some insane amount, and you aren't just using Sheltrons for no reason, it's not really that big of an inconvenience.

And then, as far as Clemency goes, barring a nerf I think it should stay as it is. It's great in soloing old content, and it's great in pinch situations where the clear matters more than the parse. Living for parses is really banal in my opinion, and I'd actually like PLD to have more skills like it. There's always going to be fights/fight segments that take a fat hot steaming dump all over rotations anyway, but power like what Clemency gives, the power to actually save other players with consistency, is fairly regimented and uncommon outside of a handful of skills. Most having less power due to cooldown constraints.

[ReynTime]

I like where PLD stands. It actually feels very different to other tanks IMO and I hope it stays different. There are 3 tanks if you want more offensive options. I like PLD because it's one of the few jobs that still have dynamic, situational decision making and isn't a dedicated healer.

If I have any complaints, it's waiting until 70+ for a freaking gap closer (which makes pulling feel awkward compared to other tanks between Lv5x and 70), and PLD being admittedly extremely dull to level before the late 6X compared to other tanks in general. Their differential kit doesn't really become very evident until that late in the game, and I wish they'd drag some of the actions giving it identity into lower levels instead of piling it all together close to the cap.