What was the Japanese reception to Nier crossover?

[ForteNightshade]

It doesn't have lax moderation but like any big sub-reddit there is a strong hivemind in it, and opinions get shot down or flamed if they don't fit their agenda.

... you're joking right? We had a troll necro-ing threads for over six months and literally nothing was done. And that's one example of many.

[Ardyvald]

As a theme park, it is not constrained by what kind of "rides" it wants to feature. Disneyland can feature many attractions that Disney owns even if they're not originally created by Disney. FFXIV, as a theme park MMORPG, does not have to strick to the FF franchise for inspirations of its contents, regardless of the type of content, but especially for non-MSQ, which are still side contents even if they may be a main attraction.

Well, you know, that's just how canon works. The author of the canon decides what is canon. And as you've said, alliance raid is a "main content." It doesn't automatically become not canon just because there are guest creators brought in to help develop it unless otherwise stated.

It doesn't have to stick to the FF franchise BUT this is the "main course" : one of the main purpose.
And I see you consider anything else but the MSQ as side content ? You don't consider Raids (8 and 24) as part of main content ?

Also, anything added not "fitting" the FF franchise is good as long as it sticks to "side content" (that's the way I feel about this).
I see "side content" more like "bonus content" if you prefer : something added to the game but not "part of the main elements brought by the expansion".

I don't know much about what has been said in interviews/faq, but as a wild guess, I don't really think they put Nier as raid because Nier is canon to the FF universe (if that's what you imply)
I think they put Nier as a Raid because they wanted to bring a lot of stuff for this collab, and didn't fit into a simple duty/trial. so they brought that phat *ss and crushed the slot allocated for "ShB Raids".

[Ardyvald]

I think it's already too late, we got no "Tribe quest" this time, maybe it was replaced by the Nier quest.
But in the future I don't think we'll see more Nier. The arc has concluded and doesn't let rooms to anything "Nier"else. On top of that, Nier is the only remaining content that concerns Norvrandt, Eden has concluded in 5.4.
At most we'll get extra feature/content in Norvrandt but I doubt about that unless they find a way to connect the source and the first.

XIV is a theme park, sure. But it reimagine things and invent. Or create things any FF players could not experience before.
Omega Vs Shinryu happened way long ago before FF V yet we witnessed it.
Bismark is an odd summon that rarely appears and it has a major role in HW. Same goes for Lakshmi.

The difference is that most content is integrated into XIV and so far only Nier exists in its own bubble, which already exist in Norvrandt, a place cut from the source.
To explain it better, if you cut Crystal Tower raids, the story makes no sense. If you cut Alexander, you have a major plot hole. You can't cut Ivalice as Bozja and the IVth legion are heavily tied to it, which are part of the Garlean empire.
You can cut Shadow of Mhach, you'll get less story as the raid wasn't as connected (until the future?) but Nier, you can cut it entirely and you would miss nothing. It doesn't brings anything to XIV universe and is not anchored on anything existing.

You could even make another separate Nier collab, it couldn't be tied to Nier:Automata collab since it's in Norvrandt and isolated, unless it's in Norvrandt again.
That's how """canon""" Nier raid is. You can apply the Nier raid story to any other game, even Mario, MH or Pokemon they come from another world, they do things that doesn't impact the world or are tied to the world, they all suddenly leave.

Nier being "just a collab". i'd be severely p*ssed off if they had made sure that the story fits in too much...
The other collabs are written so you kinda know this is "alien" to the universe but "oh well, it's here". a collab doesn't have to fit in the universe as to become "part of it".

[Ardyvald]

I mean I think it'd be dumb if they did a Mario collab that was canon sure but me thinking its dumb or not making sense doesn't affect whether it's canon or not. You can choose to ignore the Nier stuff in your headcanon if you want but that doesn't affect whether or not it's actually canon.

Not gonna lie, the "canon" concept was pretty alien to me some months ago. so i'll try to see if i'm getting it correctly :
Basically, is considered "canon" anything put into a medium by their author, am I correct ? Or are there any more than that ?
If it's only what I stated, then the face that things "makes sense" has nothing to do with the fact something is canon.
But that doesn't remove the fact that it doesn't make sense to fit "X game" content into "Y game" if they are unrelated whatsoever.

I'm happy that some (lots of) people are enjoying the raid.
I don't because for me this collab has cut main FF-related content to replace it with non-FF related content.

I'm "happy" it's over and done. and hope we'll never see any more of this Nier... it has been sufficiently promoted with a whole 3-part raid in an expansion.
Let's go back to "collab as side content".

[ItMe]

Not gonna lie, the "canon" concept was pretty alien to me some months ago. so i'll try to see if i'm getting it correctly :
Basically, is considered "canon" anything put into a medium by their author, am I correct ? Or are there any more than that ?

Cannon is whatever the author (or another figure of ownership/authority) says really happened in the story.
You can have an author who writes noncannon sidestories for fun, or a company that says half of what an author wrote is now noncannon so they have more creative space in the author's world, etc.

Something being cannon or not doesn't stop the stories from having been told, or stop cannon stories from referencing/being built off of noncannon ones.

[Theodric]

... you're joking right? We had a troll necro-ing threads for over six months and literally nothing was done. And that's one example of many.

That's just an annoyance, though. Actual death threats and explicit material are nuked and dealt with pretty swiftly.

The same cannot be said of Reddit, Twitter and many FFXIV related Discord communities who allow such filth to fester either by turning a blind eye to it or hiding it away in 'secret' channels.

The moderation on this site isn't perfect and I have my beef with it, but I stand firmly behind the idea that when people need to be protected from credible threats the moderators here do their job. It simply isn't the case with the other communities, sadly.

[linayar]

The raid is canon to the game but I guess you can say that the whole Nier universe behind that isnt. For example if its true that Yoko Taro said that this raid will be canon in his stories, then that would in turn mean that somewhere Nier and all the other games also happened in the FF14 universe. I guess in that case its easier to say that these connections are not canon, so the Nier raid happened in FF14 but that does not mean that there is a whole Nier universe out there.

I would agree with this. Yorha is what matters to FFXIV, not Nier.

It doesn't have to stick to the FF franchise BUT this is the "main course" : one of the main purpose.
And I see you consider anything else but the MSQ as side content ? You don't consider Raids (8 and 24) as part of main content ?

They're main attractions, sure, but if they're optional, then of course they're not the main content. You can go through the expansions without ever unlocking any raid or alliance raid except for Crystal Tower.

Also, anything added not "fitting" the FF franchise is good as long as it sticks to "side content" (that's the way I feel about this).
I see "side content" more like "bonus content" if you prefer : something added to the game but not "part of the main elements brought by the expansion".

I view "side content" as being off to the side, just like the name would imply. So any content that is optional is off to the side. That doesn't mean there are no major side contents and minor side contents. Raids are major contents; they are part of the main attractions, but still optional. The game will not force you to play them if you don't like to do raid contents. It's why their stories are disconnected from the MSQ (until Crystal Tower). Some might feel that Coil should be part of the MSQ, but that's a different topic altogether.

I don't know much about what has been said in interviews/faq, but as a wild guess, I don't really think they put Nier as raid because Nier is canon to the FF universe (if that's what you imply)
I think they put Nier as a Raid because they wanted to bring a lot of stuff for this collab, and didn't fit into a simple duty/trial. so they brought that phat *ss and crushed the slot allocated for "ShB Raids".

No, I'm never under the impression that Nier is canon to FFXIV, just Yorha. Even if Yorha is canon to Nier (which is not guaranteed), that still wouldn't make Nier canon to FFXIV. It's a fictional story, so both FFXIV and Nier could have different interpretations of Yorha's story.

Not gonna lie, the "canon" concept was pretty alien to me some months ago. so i'll try to see if i'm getting it correctly :
Basically, is considered "canon" anything put into a medium by their author, am I correct ? Or are there any more than that ?
If it's only what I stated, then the face that things "makes sense" has nothing to do with the fact something is canon.

Basically, yes, but the author also has the right to say if not everything they put in is canon. So a work can be official (meaning originating from the actual author), but not canon.

But that doesn't remove the fact that it doesn't make sense to fit "X game" content into "Y game" if they are unrelated whatsoever.

That's not exactly what happened. Yorha is original content to FFXIV. It is not fitting Nier to FFXIV because you're not forced to play Nier to do Yorha. It's a collaboration, a fan service, that is canon to FFXIV, unless otherwise stated.

[Ardyvald]

*snip*

*snip*

Thanks a lot for your replies and explanations, I guess I'm starting to see what really bothers me the most about that Raid (especially thanks to you Linayar)

As I see Raids as "Main content" (even if it is a main side content, as you state Linayar), I consider that this type of content as "should stick to the FF universe".
Even if only "YorHa" is "canon" to FFXiv, it's roots don't come from an FF game, and that's what really bothers me (to be polite)

I don't mind having fanservice or whatever in the game, as long as it sticks to "bonus" content (consider 'X' as the overall guideline of an expansion content, "bonus" means "X+y").
I'm fully aware that, as a player, what I think of "what should/shouln't be in the game" is irrelevant. It's just the way I feel about the game.

Just as an addition to your statement Linayar : Ivalice raids are also mandatory to the Relic quest line.
But I guess that you consider this as "side content" given your explanations and thus doesn't apply to the same rule as Crystal (which is mandatory for MSQ).
I must add though that this side story has quite an impact in the main story (it's not inside its own bubble)

I'm stubborn, I know, but that won't change my mind about that Nier Collab though... I guess i'll have to move on, and strongly hope they'll stop this in particular... I feel cut front a huge "main side content" because of that

[ItMe]

As I see Raids as "Main content" (even if it is a main side content, as you state Linayar), I consider that this type of content as "should stick to the FF universe".
Even if only "YorHa" is "canon" to FFXiv, it's roots don't come from an FF game, and that's what really bothers me (to be polite)

I feel the same way whenever we get content in FF14 that doesn't have it's roots in FF14.
Actually, I've noticed it bothers me more if the roots are in another FF game than if they're in something unrelated.