"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

[Awha]

Personally I wish FFXIV followed more of a meta slave mentality over this you do not pay my sub one. I really wish at times we could just flash numbers around cause sometimes people need a wake up call for poor play.

[Penthea]

Yeah, really often I see the "meta" get blamed when someone is actually just terrible at playing their class.

It's not the "meta" that says a BLM should be using Enochian
It's not the "meta" that says a NIN should be using ninjutsu
It's not the "meta" that says a BRD should sing

It's not the meta pointing out that players playing those classes and not doing those things... are bad at their jobs. That's just basic class mechanics and has nothing to do with the meta.

Here's what the meta IS: "we don't want you in our party because GNB is bad" or "we don't want a SCH healing because AST increases our raid dps by more."

"BLM please cast fire" is not the meta horning in on your playstyle.

People who complain about those comments coming from elitist meta players don't know what meta comments are actually like.

This is what a meta elitist comment actually looks like: "lol you're playing <class>? It has the lowest dps in the game, reroll instead of making people work harder for your bad choices"

And elitist meta players would say the above even if the person in question is actually playing their class very well.

It is not elitist to expect people to be able to meet the requirements of normal mode content if they have lost their sprout tag a long time ago. It's called normal mode because it's an attainable degree of performance by almost everyone. It is very rare when someone cannot possibly meet the requirements for normal mode.

[LisSquid]

Personally I wish FFXIV followed more of a meta slave mentality over this you do not pay my sub one. I really wish at times we could just flash numbers around cause sometimes people need a wake up call for poor play.

Really, the fact posting a parse is grounds for GM intervention and not people intentionally holding up a run based on "you don't pay my sub" says all you need to know about which groups toxicity is more of an issue.

I swear people throw around "meta" like they were ever in a situation where it came up. As others have said above, telling someone you should be using an ability in your rotation isn't telling them to follow meta. That's just informing them they aren't following basic class design.

[linayar]

Really, the fact posting a parse is grounds for GM intervention and not people intentionally holding up a run based on "you don't pay my sub" says all you need to know about which groups toxicity is more of an issue.

Based on that, the answer is obviously the group that needs GM intervention. That's the one that's considered to be an issue.

All semi-joking aside, though...

It is very rare when someone cannot possibly meet the requirements for normal mode.

This is my experience as well, which is why I think both sides are overreacting for the most part.

[LisSquid]

Based on that, the answer is obviously the group that needs GM intervention. That's the one that's considered to be an issue.

Then we are in agreement, then :P

Case still stands that it's absurd to think it is happening enough to warrant the OP opening several threads about it.

[SturmChurro]

Personally I wish FFXIV followed more of a meta slave mentality over this you do not pay my sub one. I really wish at times we could just flash numbers around cause sometimes people need a wake up call for poor play.

You can flash numbers around. If it's so important for someone to call another out, why not do it anyway?

[Awha]

You can flash numbers around. If it's so important to call another out for it, why not do it anyway?

If I end up running content with pugs I often do call people out if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space but sometimes it would be nice if I could just show the numbers of a player without worrying about being reported.

It does not happen often but when you get those players they are doing fine in x content. Yet even the most bullheaded player will have a hard time defending a dps doing less damage then a healer or tank on single target fights.

Facts should not be considered toxic. Though here that is sadly the case. Hell often you are called a meta drone if you dare expect people to try cause end of the day the content can be cleared with dead weight.

[SturmChurro]

If I end up running content with pugs I often do call people out if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space but sometimes it would be nice if I could just show the numbers of a player without worrying about being reported.

It does not happen often but when you get those players they are doing fine in x content. Yet even the most bullheaded player will have a hard time defending a dps doing less damage then a healer or tank on single target fights.

If you are already calling people out for "if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space", I'd assume they could already report you, frankly. Wait, you aren't using a third party program to gather said numbers are you?

[Rasler_Heios]

I'm sorry, but I can say that you can play the game, enjoy it and be a decent player at it. To say they cannot exist in the same sentence is not correct otherwise there would be many players out there, including me, who would not be staying to play the game. There are already Final Fantasy series fans out there, again including me, who are able to enjoy this game. So please try not to generalize. You can state your own experience but I don't think anyone can generalize for the vast majority.

[Awha]

If you are already calling people out for "if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space", I'd assume they could already report you, frankly. Wait, you aren't using a third party program to gather said numbers are you?

I word it nicer in game. Though if I use a third party tool the numbers it records should not be seen as toxic. Linking the numbers then saying x you need to step it up is not toxic though in FFXIV it is seen as toxic due to SE dated view on parsing.