"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

[SturmChurro]

Personally I wish FFXIV followed more of a meta slave mentality over this you do not pay my sub one. I really wish at times we could just flash numbers around cause sometimes people need a wake up call for poor play.

You can flash numbers around. If it's so important for someone to call another out, why not do it anyway?

[Awha]

You can flash numbers around. If it's so important to call another out for it, why not do it anyway?

If I end up running content with pugs I often do call people out if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space but sometimes it would be nice if I could just show the numbers of a player without worrying about being reported.

It does not happen often but when you get those players they are doing fine in x content. Yet even the most bullheaded player will have a hard time defending a dps doing less damage then a healer or tank on single target fights.

Facts should not be considered toxic. Though here that is sadly the case. Hell often you are called a meta drone if you dare expect people to try cause end of the day the content can be cleared with dead weight.

[SturmChurro]

If I end up running content with pugs I often do call people out if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space but sometimes it would be nice if I could just show the numbers of a player without worrying about being reported.

It does not happen often but when you get those players they are doing fine in x content. Yet even the most bullheaded player will have a hard time defending a dps doing less damage then a healer or tank on single target fights.

If you are already calling people out for "if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space", I'd assume they could already report you, frankly. Wait, you aren't using a third party program to gather said numbers are you?

[Awha]

If you are already calling people out for "if they are what amounts to a sort of waste of space", I'd assume they could already report you, frankly. Wait, you aren't using a third party program to gather said numbers are you?

I word it nicer in game. Though if I use a third party tool the numbers it records should not be seen as toxic. Linking the numbers then saying x you need to step it up is not toxic though in FFXIV it is seen as toxic due to SE dated view on parsing.

[Rasler_Heios]

I'm sorry, but I can say that you can play the game, enjoy it and be a decent player at it. To say they cannot exist in the same sentence is not correct otherwise there would be many players out there, including me, who would not be staying to play the game. There are already Final Fantasy series fans out there, again including me, who are able to enjoy this game. So please try not to generalize. You can state your own experience but I don't think anyone can generalize for the vast majority.

[Infindox]

Personally I wish FFXIV followed more of a meta slave mentality over this you do not pay my sub one. I really wish at times we could just flash numbers around cause sometimes people need a wake up call for poor play.

The problem with this view is that there are amazing players with the numbers to prove it who just aren't considered part of the meta. Should they be excluded?

Also I don't mind if a static expects certain numbers but playing with pugs you have to have a certain level of tolerance. Someone could have just returned from a break and bit off more then they could chew, or maybe they forgot the fight and need a refresher. Or maybe someone never talked to them about their job or showed them the resources. The only time you should be critical towards someone is if they show no intention to get better or don't respect the team by learning. And in both cases, don't be like those streamers who think it's funny to pull up someone else's numbers and laugh about it on stream.

[Awha]

The problem with this view is that there are amazing players with the numbers to prove it who just aren't considered part of the meta. Should they be excluded?

Also I don't mind if a static expects certain numbers but playing with pugs you have to have a certain level of tolerance. Someone could have just returned from a break and bit off more then they could chew, or maybe they forgot the fight and need a refresher. Or maybe someone never talked to them about their job or showed them the resources. The only time you should be critical towards someone is if they show no intention to get better or don't respect the team by learning. And in both cases, don't be like those streamers who think it's funny to pull up someone else's numbers and laugh about it on stream.

Meta slave mentally in my post more so about how people are expected to perform a certain way. I doubt even if FFXIV went full meta slave mentally it would be as harsh as it can get in WoW cause generally how jobs play now they more or less play within acceptable performance among one another. If jobs remained as closely balanced and job synergy is not exclusive like it was in the past.

Personally I do not think it should be up the group to spare the feelings of another player because they might be having an off night or thought they were doing fine. That is why I think posting ones numbers should be acceptable since numbers are not toxic. If you have a BLM that is being out damaged by a healer or tank then that player should be informed of such. If we could show numbers even if they have the you do not pay my sub it is much harder to defend a dps that is objectively being out damged by a tank or healer especially when they cannot hide behind you used a parser. Holding players accountable is not toxic, hell I would argue allowing us to show numbers makes it less toxic cause then at the very least we have hard numbers to go based off of. Like in cases when you have a co healed that claims to be healing you could just show them nope sorry.

[Penthea]

Now, you could say you would only use numbers on people who are dying or causing the party to wipe or hit enrage, but if the numbers are readily available, others might not stick to those cases.

From my time in WoW I can tell you that there are definitely players out there who do not use parsers to only point out actual problems. Some use them as an excuse to gloat or needlessly put someone down. I have legit seen someone complain at a player because they were doing slightly less dps than they should have been with the gear they had...while in a dungeon that was a faceroll -_- For some people there doesn't even need to be a problem for them to speak up, they just do so to show off their supposed superior knowledge or performance.

Parsers are excellent tools but as the saying goes "this is why we can't have nice things". Enough people do misuse them for SE to not want to make them easily available to players. I don't think we'll ever get an official parser until the community can prove to SE that parser related toxicity would be extremely rare...and well considering some of the things I have seen in these forums and when I have pugged above normal mode, this is not yet the case. I don't think it ever will be to be honest. Tryhards are gonna tryhard.

However the bar is so low in normal mode they're just not required there. You would need a spectacularly bad group to fail normal mode due to dps issues. And OP is talking about toxicity in casual content. Which I'm still confused about because I rarely see that in casual content. Still not sure if they're playing the same game as I am.

[linayar]

And OP is talking about toxicity in casual content. Which I'm still confused about because I rarely see that in casual content. Still not sure if they're playing the same game as I am.

As I've said from time to time, people's experiences vary and I have no trouble believing that they could experience it. But I will also say that those extreme experiences are likely in the minority and could be ignored without pronouncing judgment on the game or the community as a whole.

And this goes for both sides, those who met the elitist jerks and those who met the casual jerks. Jerks are jerks regardless.

[ItMe]

Case still stands that it's absurd to think it is happening enough to warrant the OP opening several threads about it.

IS IT happening that often though?
Seems like no one is having this issue nearly as often as OP claims to be.
I think opening threads about this is their hobby...