Trust should go up to trails

[Alaray]

With how garbage it can be to sit in queues for hours on end in content no one runs anymore since it's fallen out of being current, yeah I agree.

- Signed someone who sat in a 190 minute Emerald Normal queue on an alt from 5PM > 8 whatever the hell PM on Aether.

[StormyFae]

I thought part of the point of mmos was to be in an environment which encourages teamplay.



Oh right this is about what you want from a game, not what the genre actually is.



It would if you could do everything with Trusts. But you can't and it likely will never get to that point because I don't see SE making Trusts work for alliance raids and ex/savage/ultimate. It would be an incredible amount of work to get it to function for a 24 man, and having it in ex/savage/ultimate would defeat the purpose of those difficulties existing in the first place. Anyway the Scions don't even have enough people to fill up an alliance raid

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of Trusts being available for all msq content. Though I do wonder how that would work in some parts of HW given what happens to the Scions. We'll see whenever SE gets around to it.



Yeap completely agree Trusts are a stress free way to learn how to do content. I have used them sometimes when I wanted to do a dungeon but at sima very chill pace. You also get a little bit more story from paying attention to what the npcs say which is cool. Could do without Alisae constantly stealing the lb though ;D



There is nothing about teamplay being required for story that makes a person bad at the game. Literally nothing. Doing a msq dungeon isn't any different to doing a side content dungeon. What people need to accept is bad players are everywhere. You can't escape them. Every game has them. And frankly I think many exaggerate how often they encounter bad players because for the most part the people I encounter play well enough to be far above the requirements for the content. Sure they're not purple parse level but you don't need to be for most content. Not even savage.

Mmo isnt a genre fool its an addition the real genre the game falls under for this one a rpg, for shooters it is just that a shooter that is multiple player with others...

Mmo has never been a stand alone genre its an addition its only meaning is its a simple rpg with massive players online thats all it is..

Also encourging a teamplay and forcing it on people for story is a big difference..

And again im not against teamplay, however im against it in terms of progression and story..

[linayar]

I thought part of the point of mmos was to be in an environment which encourages teamplay.

Not anymore apparently. The supposed biggest MMO currently can be played to max level solo without ever needing to be in a party. And I've seen people complaining that you can't yet solo the hardest difficulty raid of the previous expansion. (Apparently this is a thing in that big MMO, soloing previous expansions hardest difficulty raid bosses.)

Anyways, with FFXIV, I do think the current limitations on TRUST would make it viable for trials (and maybe even raids) without compromising too much on the teamplay aspect of the game.

[Penthea]

Not anymore apparently. The supposed biggest MMO currently can be played to max level solo without ever needing to be in a party.

You miss out on a lot by avoiding group content in WoW. You miss out on story content, big chunks of faction reputation that would otherwise take a long time to farm, the ability to get to a certain level of faction standing because it requires dungeon completion and even being able to unlock certain races. And those races are not hidden. The first thing you see when you make a character is a lot of races that you cannot access.

So yea while you can get to max lvl in WoW without entering a single dungeon by avoiding group content you are depriving yourself of a lot, especially in end-game if you continue to avoid group content because most content at that point is aimed at groups. Going back to the whole "mmos encourage teamplay" thing.

And I've seen people complaining that you can't yet solo the hardest difficulty raid of the previous expansion. (Apparently this is a thing in that big MMO, soloing previous expansions hardest difficulty raid bosses.)

This is because people still do them to get minions and mounts. Doing that has been a thing in WoW for over a decade. Before the lvl squish people could solo them easily but since then it's often impossible. Finding groups for that content isn't easy and even if you do if that ultra rare mount drops you end up competing with others for the loot. Before the lvl squish you could do it on your own without worrying about someone else taking the super rare loot. The lvl squish removed a popular activity players had been already doing solo for over a decade. This is why they complain.

EDIT: and when I say super rare I meant SUPER rare. You can do some raids weekly for several years and never see a mount drop.

[Shougun]

Not anymore apparently. The supposed biggest MMO currently can be played to max level solo without ever needing to be in a party. And I've seen people complaining that you can't yet solo the hardest difficulty raid of the previous expansion. (Apparently this is a thing in that big MMO, soloing previous expansions hardest difficulty raid bosses.)

Anyways, with FFXIV, I do think the current limitations on TRUST would make it viable for trials (and maybe even raids) without compromising too much on the teamplay aspect of the game.

I see a lot of players, myself included, that enjoy the environment of a living space, and the opportunity for team play, in a massive large sprawling world, while also taking advantage of many classical sRPG features and situations.

I think a lot of hardercore MULTIPLAYER OR DIE people have extreme difficulty seeing that as something one might do, but it is indeed a thing lol. Also that balance does happen to also work well for those who are not particularly skilled (balance it so a really good player can do it, also means a few not so great, for whatever reason, players could do it).

On another note I also don't, on a purpose driven level, think it's important to enforce the same approach for every player. If you can get hard core players, medium core, casual, big group, and small, all get to enjoy the content, or at least 'most' of most of those groups.. That's honestly a huge win to me. I see no real great purpose to locking off stuff because 'that's the way it was'. Only for ultimate where literally the purpose of it is simply to "be the best in a group" do I pause and think "eh, maybe leave it alone and let it die if no one can do it". Particularly for myself I enjoy the group play, but sometimes given time constraints being able to do stuff solo is an absolute godsend (even if it's delayed far down the mountain).

In general I think FFXIV does this very well, and I've seen Yoshida describe it as a sort of mountain curve. (I sometimes refer to it as a rolling mountain). It's why I was hoping they find a good solution if their new level curve is going to indeed make unsync not as strong (like just making sure blue mage can still do it). WoW has (had-ish) this in some elements due to their insane powercreep, but I think FFXIV actually has attempted to facilitate the rolling mountain in more thoughtful and purposeful ways.

[Vahlnir]

This is because people still do them to get minions and mounts. Doing that has been a thing in WoW for over a decade. Before the lvl squish people could solo them easily but since then it's often impossible. Finding groups for that content isn't easy and even if you do if that ultra rare mount drops you end up competing with others for the loot. Before the lvl squish you could do it on your own without worrying about someone else taking the super rare loot. The lvl squish removed a popular activity players had been already doing solo for over a decade. This is why they complain.

EDIT: and when I say super rare I meant SUPER rare. You can do some raids weekly for several years and never see a mount drop.

I was one such person who basically relied on this side activity to keep me busy a lot of the time. If they hadn't broken Legacy mode and left it out of Legion raids entirely I'd have probably stayed subbed a little longer or felt the urge to come back more often. I think some people really underestimate just how valuable this activity can be. And yeah, it can still take years for something to drop, or it may never happen at all. I know this from experience. It took me 7 years to get a rare mount (ICC 25 Heroic, Invincible's Reins). But you know what? The sheer joy I felt was worth the wait. I just...miss having goals like that. Shadowlands basically took everything I enjoyed doing and flushed it all down the toilet, both in old content and current expansion stuff. BfA wasn't perfect, but I still felt like I could progress somehow. When Shadowlands launched I felt like I hit a brick wall after hitting max level. Between that and essentially killing the old raid farming I was hoping to do I decided to drop the game and haven't touched it since.

[linayar]

You miss out on a lot by avoiding group content in WoW. You miss out on story content, big chunks of faction reputation that would otherwise take a long time to farm, the ability to get to a certain level of faction standing because it requires dungeon completion and even being able to unlock certain races. And those races are not hidden. The first thing you see when you make a character is a lot of races that you cannot access.

So yea while you can get to max lvl in WoW without entering a single dungeon by avoiding group content you are depriving yourself of a lot, especially in end-game if you continue to avoid group content because most content at that point is aimed at groups. Going back to the whole "mmos encourage teamplay" thing.



This is because people still do them to get minions and mounts. Doing that has been a thing in WoW for over a decade. Before the lvl squish people could solo them easily but since then it's often impossible. Finding groups for that content isn't easy and even if you do if that ultra rare mount drops you end up competing with others for the loot. Before the lvl squish you could do it on your own without worrying about someone else taking the super rare loot. The lvl squish removed a popular activity players had been already doing solo for over a decade. This is why they complain.

EDIT: and when I say super rare I meant SUPER rare. You can do some raids weekly for several years and never see a mount drop.

Of course you can miss a lot by not grouping, but it depends on the player whether that's important for them. The game itself doesn't encourage teamplay either way. And the fact that it's a thing to go back and solo old content means you don't have to miss out on much unless you want to experience the difficulty at release or you want that group experience.

I see a lot of players, myself included, that enjoy the environment of a living space, and the opportunity for team play, in a massive large sprawling world, while also taking advantage of many classical sRPG features and situations.



I think a lot of hardercore MULTIPLAYER OR DIE people have extreme difficulty seeing that as something one might do, but it is indeed a thing lol. Also that balance does happen to also work well for those who are not particularly skilled (balance it so a really good player can do it, also means a few not so great, for whatever reason, players could do it).

On another note I also don't, on a purpose driven level, think it's important to enforce the same approach for every player. If you can get hard core players, medium core, casual, big group, and small, all get to enjoy the content, or at least 'most' of most of those groups.. That's honestly a huge win to me. I see no real great purpose to locking off stuff because 'that's the way it was'. Only for ultimate where literally the purpose of it is simply to "be the best in a group" do I pause and think "eh, maybe leave it alone and let it die if no one can do it". Particularly for myself I enjoy the group play, but sometimes given time constraints being able to do stuff solo is an absolute godsend (even if it's delayed far down the mountain).

In general I think FFXIV does this very well, and I've seen Yoshida describe it as a sort of mountain curve. (I sometimes refer to it as a rolling mountain). It's why I was hoping they find a good solution if their new level curve is going to indeed make unsync not as strong (like just making sure blue mage can still do it). WoW has (had-ish) this in some elements due to their insane powercreep, but I think FFXIV actually has attempted to facilitate the rolling mountain in more thoughtful and purposeful ways.

I think the key is that MMORPG is a multiplayer game, which means there should be content that rewards playing with other people, whether cooperatively or competitively. But how far to take that multiplayer aspect can be different from one game to another, and whether or not that leads to increased socializing is also another matter. I do think having required multiplayer content (or at least content that simulates multiplayer content like TRUST) during leveling and endgame (like FFXIV) is preferable for me.

[kaynide]

For me an MMORPG is basically to games as a shopping mall is to ..well.. shopping.

That is to say, for me it's mostly a solo thing. BUT I enjoy the option to meet up with friends, or just do some people watching, or happen upon some interesting things like a flash mob.

I've been playing the genre for almost 20 years now and have played them almost entirely solo with a handful of friends peppered in. The actual people I randomly group with for DF in FFXIV might as well be AI for all the interaction we do in said duties.

[Kuroka]

Imo no, very hard no, the dungeons already got less and weaker for trusts so no, i dont want watered down trials and raids as well...

[strawberrycake]

Multiplayer means it has to have team play not that we should depenon others for story, 1st clear should be done wuth trust for everything after that should be with other ppl

The trust system is kinda cancer ngl, we're in an MMO and yet the trust out do the people actually using the system, when they use trusts and when they use DF