To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's

[linayar]

While there's some loyalty there, for many players it also does a pretty good job of showing the rate at which 14 loses players. The population you see in those censuses tends not to fluctuate very much over time but when you consider the ever increasing number of new players the game pulls in.. 4 million, 5 million, 6 million, 8 million, 10 million, 12 million.... ever increasing. Yet ths population always remains about the same which is why many people say the game struggles because for every million players it pulls in, it effectively bleeds another million right out.. Which is where the sentiment about the games lack of longevity often stems from..

And that is why the number of current active players is largely irrelevant as long as it's not in constant decline and people are generally able to find other players to complete (at least the main) contents.

Beyond that, total registered accounts, the metric that SE is willing to publicly show and celebrate, is good enough to show that the game has enough interests for the company to continue investing in and for potential new players to also try. These new players may stay or they may not, but as long as the game can keep a healthy influx of new players while retaining enough of the old players (including cyclical players that unsubscribe then come back either every major patch or every expansion), then they are on the right path, in my opinion.

[Vahlnir]

And that is why the number of current active players is largely irrelevant as long as it's not in constant decline and people are generally able to find other players to complete (at least the main) contents.

Beyond that, total registered accounts, the metric that SE is willing to publicly show and celebrate, is good enough to show that the game has enough interests for the company to continue investing in and for potential new players to also try. These new players may stay or they may not, but as long as the game can keep a healthy influx of new players while retaining enough of the old players (including cyclical players that unsubscribe then come back either every major patch or every expansion), then they are on the right path, in my opinion.

Pretty much. And this is why they may do better than WoW eventually. Meanwhile, the Blizzard devs want to design the game for themselves, not the player base, and seem perfectly content to let any and all players leave because to heck with them. That is a dark road.

[linayar]

seem perfectly content to let any and all players leave because to heck with them. That is a dark road.

To be fair, saying that SE is fine with you unsubscribing when you no longer have anything you want to do in the game might be seen the same way.

I certainly don't think that's the case for SE, and probably not for Blizzard either as they also like to celebrate monthly active user count (whatever that means). I just think that SE knows what they can release and is not in denial over the fact that it doesn't work for everybody, so it's a "no hard feelings" deal with them if people quit.

But I don't know, I probably should not be so comfortable with attributing any specific intent to companies. They have their own perspective while us players have our own anecdotal experiences (with some echo chamber effect in certain communities).

That said, my own anecdotal experiences in each game are enough to inform me of how I should play regardless of any other players' viewpoint. Those experiences have made me quit WoW (several times and currently) while I kept on subscribing to FFXIV except for one occasion in mid 2020 where I had to create a new account and start over due to personal issues.

It is what it is and different players' experiences and decisions with respect to either or both games will vary.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

To be fair, saying that SE is fine with you unsubscribing when you no longer have anything you want to do in the game might be seen the same way.

I certainly don't think that's the case for SE, and probably not for Blizzard either as they also like to celebrate monthly active user count (whatever that means). I just think that SE knows what they can release and is not in denial over the fact that it doesn't work for everybody, so it's a "no hard feelings" deal with them if people quit.

But I don't know, I probably should not be so comfortable with attributing any specific intent to companies. They have their own perspective while us players have our own anecdotal experiences (with some echo chamber effect in certain communities).

That said, my own anecdotal experiences in each game are enough to inform me of how I should play regardless of any other players' viewpoint. Those experiences have made me quit WoW (several times and currently) while I kept on subscribing to FFXIV except for one occasion in mid 2020 where I had to create a new account and start over due to personal issues.

It is what it is and different players' experiences and decisions with respect to either or both games will vary.

Well in FFXIVs case, I think YoshiP himself has even said "You dont need to keep playing our game forever. Its actually good to take breaks. Go do other things, and play other games for a while, then you can come back and not burn yourself out, check out the new content and patches"

Thats a massive Paraphrase, but he's basically said that he supports, if not outright encourages cyclical players.

[VelKallor]

Pretty much. And this is why they may do better than WoW eventually. Meanwhile, the Blizzard devs want to design the game for themselves, not the player base, and seem perfectly content to let any and all players leave because to heck with them. That is a dark road.

There was a Community Manager some time ago (and no I dont have that quote as it got nuked with the new expac forums, it went down the memory hole ) who said

"It is our game and our journey, you are invited guests"

Wait..WHAT?

The utter arrogance and condescending nature of that one comment beggared belief. The players make that game what it is..I also remember another CM saying and I quote "WOD is the expac the devs wanted to play"..look I dont know what it is, I cant say where this is coming from, but one thing resonated with me , a comment sent last day I was ingame..he quit the same day as i did, and it was more a plaintive question

"When was it that WE became the enemy'?

I cannot say where it is coming from, but the key issue seems ( to me at least ) a growing disconnect between the devs and the playerbase. I was in at least two betas, repeatedly I handed them feedback along with others and all of it was ignored...in Gods name WHY ask us to test and then disregard what we tell you??

I did beta testing for other companies for a while, and the success or failure of their projects was directly proportional to their willingness to listen to the people they had asked to test for them. Some listened, some didnt, was a mixed bag. No one is saying design by committee, God knows the playerbase often doesnt even know what it wants, we can be and have been way offbase..but when you bring in a system or feature which is slammed by everyone and the devs are told WHY its bad in huge detail...and you go ahead anyway...why be surprised when you get almost universal negative feedback?

To be fair, saying that SE is fine with you unsubscribing when you no longer have anything you want to do in the game might be seen the same way.

YoshiP meant he didnt want players to feel obligated to log in, to not burn out and go have some fun elsewhere then come back later and play with your friends in new content.

Linayar: with the deepest respect, old friend, thats a far cry from "So quit, we dont need you", which, I am sad to say, seems to be Blizzards attitude now. I have been gaming for a long time, and in all truth, I am literally at a loss to understand it.

Or maybe Im just getting old.......

*sigh*

[linayar]

Well in FFXIVs case, I think YoshiP himself has even said "You dont need to keep playing our game forever. Its actually good to take breaks. Go do other things, and play other games for a while, then you can come back and not burn yourself out, check out the new content and patches"

Thats a massive Paraphrase, but he's basically said that he supports, if not outright encourages cyclical players.

YoshiP meant he didnt want players to feel obligated to log in, to not burn out and go have some fun elsewhere then come back later and play with your friends in new content.

Linayar: with the deepest respect, old friend, thats a far cry from "So quit, we dont need you", which, I am sad to say, seems to be Blizzards attitude now. I have been gaming for a long time, and in all truth, I am literally at a loss to understand it.

Or maybe Im just getting old.......

*sigh*

Yes, that's how I understood it too.

I'm just saying that some people want to continue being engaged continuously and having to quit every time (even temporarily) might not be for them. In the end, FFXIV won't satisfy everyone, and I've definitely voiced my opinions against certain advices that would change FFXIV in order to attract/retain certain types of players that are not satisfied with FFXIV as is. It doesn't mean I think FFXIV is perfect with nothing to improve upon, but certain current features are things that I do appreciate about the game.

At the end of the day, even if FFXIV tries to retain players, it still won't satisfy everyone. Blizzard comes out with a 10-boss raid at 4 difficulty modes and M+ dungeons and some people still complain about content draught right now in Shadowlands.

[Fhaerron]

Because FF 14 REALLY needs a Raider.io type database to abuse, humiliate and denigrate players along with dps meters.

Thank you, NO.

We do have FFlogs and also the Japanese Datacenter have public blacklist where they put the bad people on.
We also have DPS meters for a very long time.

[Axxion]

We do have FFlogs and also the Japanese Datacenter have public blacklist where they put the bad people on.
We also have DPS meters for a very long time.

Wait, they have a public backlist?

[ZedxKayn]

Wait, they have a public backlist?

Yeah. If a name on a BL joins a PF or DF, not unlikely that they'll get kicked without a word.

[Axxion]

Yeah. If a name on a BL joins a PF or DF, not unlikely that they'll get kicked without a word.

That's brutal. tbh i thought the na/eu would have one of those.