Housing Lotto - New Plot Acquisition Method

[Jojoya]

Too many responses to bother quoting but it really only needs one reply to answer all of them since they're saying the same thing: "Lottery bad - get gud - click placard all day".

That's not what we're saying at all if you would actually read our replies.

We don't think the current system is good. We also don't think a lottery will make it better because lotteries come with their own flaws. Change for the sake of change without improvement is a waste of time that could have been spent on working toward finding actual improvements.

Your lottery isn't going to fix only one house being available compared to the dozen people who want it. Wouldn't you rather see SE fix the supply problem over wasting time designing and programming a lottery that's still going to leave you disappointed because you still can't win a house?

To be fair, Jumbo Cactpot isn't a good comparison because very few people care about MGP. It taking a while to determine a winner also doesn't mean they can't implemented a faster method.

If a lottery system were implemented. You simply make it at 36-72 hour window where people can purpose a ticket and the moment that timer is reached, it determines a winner. Said person than has 24 hours to build something on the plot in order to "claim" it. Should they fail to do so, it essentially auto-demos and the process starts over. Will there be more competition this way? Absolutely. But it's certainly a better alternative to standing around waiting an unknown amount of hours hoping your click beats someone else's.

A lotto system shouldn't be for new houses, only those previously owned. The whole idea is to avoid a lengthy timer, which Ishgard will not have.

Jumbo Cactpot is the perfect comparison because it is literally a lottery.

Now take Jumbo Cactpot and change the prize to a house instead of the million+ MGP. You're trying to get a house. You buy tickets for Jumbo Cactpot. You don't win the house. Not only did you not win the house, but 24 hours later it becomes apparent no one won the house. It continues to sit empty until the next drawing period. You buy a new set of tickets, the next drawing period comes and you still don't win. No one else wins. The house continues to sit empty. Everyone continues to wait for yet another drawing.

Lotteries do not guarantee winners. That's the nature of lotteries. There have been 14 Jumbo Cactpot drawings so far this year. Coeurl had winners in only 5 of those drawings. We had a 5 month gap between winners over Spring and Summer last year. We also had a few drawings where there were multiple winners. What about when that happens? A house can only have one owner.

The game would also have to do this for every house that became available. What happens when there are multiple houses available at the same time? Can the game keep separate track of every drawing so players can enter multiple drawings or will you only be able to enter one? If the latter, what if you already have tickets but would rather get a different house that just became available? Would you be able to withdraw from the other drawing so you could enter the drawing for the new house?

What about relocation? SE is not going to remove relocation at this point. It solved a few of the previous problems housing was experiencing. What if someone relocates to the plot after tickets started getting sold?

Trust me. Players will not want a lottery determining who wins a house because it creates an entirely new set of problems just as adding the timer did when added as an obstacle to house flipping. Probably the best bandaid idea I've seen listed in the forums is a waiting list but even that would have its problems and stipulations that players would not like.

But quite honestly, I'm tired of bandaids for the problem and I'm sure others feel the same way. It's time to stop wasting time on bandaids and to start getting solutions.

I assume the lottery is a way to try and get rid of player bots... and sitting somewhere having even less chance for getting a house as you don't need to camp anymore.

A lottery won't get rid of those who use bots. It just removes the bot as a potential advantage (players have managed to buy plots despite bots being present). Those players would still end up buying their tickets along with several hundred other players who preferred playing the rest of the game over camping the placard but are happy to take a minute of time to buy a ticket.

[Vahlnir]

That's not what we're saying at all if you would actually read our replies.

We don't think the current system is good. We also don't think a lottery will make it better because lotteries come with their own flaws. Change for the sake of change without improvement is a waste of time that could have been spent on working toward finding actual improvements.

Your lottery isn't going to fix only one house being available compared to the dozen people who want it. Wouldn't you rather see SE fix the supply problem over wasting time designing and programming a lottery that's still going to leave you disappointed because you still can't win a house?

If they don't get it after this then there is nothing any of us can say or do.

[geminipestdeath]

That's not what we're saying at all if you would actually read our replies.

We don't think the current system is good. We also don't think a lottery will make it better because lotteries come with their own flaws. Change for the sake of change without improvement is a waste of time that could have been spent on working toward finding actual improvements.

Your lottery isn't going to fix only one house being available compared to the dozen people who want it. Wouldn't you rather see SE fix the supply problem over wasting time designing and programming a lottery that's still going to leave you disappointed because you still can't win a house?

If they don't get it after this then there is nothing any of us can say or do.

The irony here is that neither of you actually read what I was saying despite me like... Breaking it down and bolding things. You're still focusing on the outcome, the win, and the obtaining of the house. You're still focusing on highlighting flaws against a lottery/raffle system based on the outcome and the goal, not the path there. If you guys didn't get it after I broke down why that system is preferred/valuable - even despite its flaws - then there is nothing I can say or do.

I really can't break it down any more simply than just repeating what I've already said. It isn't about the outcome. It's the unreasonable investment of both time and effort.

EDIT: It isn't "change for the sake of change without improvement" - you're just not finding improvement in the outcome. The improvement is in the time investment and it has always been about that. No-one is going to sweat losing a house in a lottery/raffle to one of the 100+ other people/bots who put in entries. They absolutely do sweat losing it to the dozen other people/bots after investing literal days of their finite life that they will never get back doing something so soul-wrenchingly boring, mundane, and exhausting.

[Vahlnir]

The irony here is that neither of you actually read what I was saying despite me like... Breaking it down and bolding things. You're still focusing on the outcome, the win, and the obtaining of the house. You're still focusing on highlighting flaws against a lottery/raffle system based on the outcome and the goal, not the path there. If you guys didn't get it after I broke down why that system is preferred/valuable - even despite its flaws - then there is nothing I can say or do.

I really can't break it down any more simply than just repeating what I've already said. It isn't about the outcome. It's the unreasonable investment of both time and effort.

We have explained our side of things in great detail. You have explained yours, also in great detail. I read your post, and wholeheartedly disagree with you, and that's a massive understatement. We will never agree by the look of things. I still feel that you are blinded by your frustrations with the current system and you can't see just how much worse it could get under a lottery/raffle. Neither system is a good one. Why settle for something just as bad, if not worse, and which comes with its own set of problems? We should be asking for real change, not switching one terrible system out for another terrible system. It solves absolutely nothing and frustrates the player base more. Let me ask, do you really want that? Truly? You'd be a fool to say yes.

[geminipestdeath]

We have explained our side of things in great detail. You have explained yours, also in great detail. I read your post, and wholeheartedly disagree with you, and that's a massive understatement. We will never agree by the look of things. I still feel that you are blinded by your frustrations with the current system and you can't see just how much worse it could get under a lottery/raffle. Neither system is a good one. Why settle for something just as bad, if not worse, and which comes with its own set of problems? We should be asking for real change, not switching one terrible system out for another terrible system. It solves absolutely nothing and frustrates the player base more. Let me ask, do you really want that? Truly? You'd be a fool to say yes.

Good lord the condescension here... Yes. I would say yes. I would absolutely say yes, I've been saying yes, and I will keep saying yes. I will be that "fool" you so snootily regard me as. So I'll respond in kind:

I don't understand why it is so fundamentally difficult for you to grasp the value of finite time. Maybe you've nothing going on in your life that demands your attention. Maybe you've super powers - you don't require sleep, or food, or have real human needs, and can just sit there clicking on a placard ad nauseum. Maybe you aren't bothered by humdrum grinds with no guarantees because you have nothing else to occupy your mind. Maybe this is the source of your inability to grasp, relate, and sympathize with those who do have those needs, so you feel the need to denigrate them for disagreeing with you and advocate things in their own best interests. I genuinely do not know - I do not much care, either. All I know is that calling me a fool for wanting something in a game that is respectful of my very real, human needs because you apparently do not have these issues is so confoundingly absurd that it isn't worth further response.

We're done here.

[Vahlnir]

Good lord the condescension here... Yes. I would say yes. I would absolutely say yes, I've been saying yes, and I will keep saying yes. I will be that "fool" you so snootily regard me as. So I'll respond in kind:

I don't understand why it is so fundamentally difficult for you to grasp the value of finite time. Maybe you've nothing going on in your life that demands your attention. Maybe you've super powers - you don't require sleep, or food, or have real human needs, and can just sit there clicking on a placard ad nauseum. Maybe you aren't bothered by humdrum grinds with no guarantees because you have nothing else to occupy your mind. Maybe this is the source of your inability to grasp, relate, and sympathize with those who do have those needs, so you feel the need to denigrate them for disagreeing with you and advocate things in their own best interests. I genuinely do not know - I do not much care, either. All I know is that calling me a fool for wanting something in a game that is respectful of my very real, human needs because you apparently do not have these issues is so confoundingly absurd that it isn't worth further response.

We're done here.

I said you would be, not that you are. But, well...

Anyway, you are making an awful lot of assumptions about me, none of which are correct in the slightest. I have a very good understanding when it comes to the value of finite time. The most valuable currency in any MMO is time, after all. Last I checked I was also human, and with very human needs, but I guess that could change! It's a crazy universe. Back on topic though...Some aren't worried about time, while others want to make the most of their time. I fall into the latter group. I think that placard spamming is unreasonable. On the flip side of things, I think a lottery/raffle is just as unreasonable, not to mention it basically guarantees that most players still won't be able to get a house, and with even worse odds at that. There's also other issues stemming from this which have been explained already. So I ask you again, do you want a better system? Because so far you have indicated that you do not. You should though. Everyone should.

[Drkdays]

Both ideas are workable, as is the current system. The problem is the implementation. Timers on houses to fight botting and flipping? Sure, but don't make the timer such an utter mystery. Lotto for housing? Sure, but add in increasing returns so your chances of getting a house increase with time. Both ideas could work and reduce player strain.

The real problem is SE's inflexible attitude: this is what we have and that's how it'll remain, hell or high water.

[Jojoya]

Good lord the condescension here... Yes. I would say yes. I would absolutely say yes, I've been saying yes, and I will keep saying yes. I will be that "fool" you so snootily regard me as. So I'll respond in kind:

I don't understand why it is so fundamentally difficult for you to grasp the value of finite time. Maybe you've nothing going on in your life that demands your attention. Maybe you've super powers - you don't require sleep, or food, or have real human needs, and can just sit there clicking on a placard ad nauseum. Maybe you aren't bothered by humdrum grinds with no guarantees because you have nothing else to occupy your mind. Maybe this is the source of your inability to grasp, relate, and sympathize with those who do have those needs, so you feel the need to denigrate them for disagreeing with you and advocate things in their own best interests. I genuinely do not know - I do not much care, either. All I know is that calling me a fool for wanting something in a game that is respectful of my very real, human needs because you apparently do not have these issues is so confoundingly absurd that it isn't worth further response.

We're done here.

Why are you wasting part of your finite time chasing pixels in a fantasy world to possess when you could be spending that finite time taking care of your very real, human needs instead?

You said it yourself, the house is something you want. A want is not a need. Prioritize your time accordingly.

The game does respect your time by giving you choices on how you use it. If you decide to use it camping a placard, that's on you. The game isn't forcing you to do it.

[Sotaris]

snip.

Is this a troll?

[MilkieTea]

The irony here is that neither of you actually read what I was saying despite me like... Breaking it down and bolding things. You're still focusing on the outcome, the win, and the obtaining of the house. You're still focusing on highlighting flaws against a lottery/raffle system based on the outcome and the goal, not the path there. If you guys didn't get it after I broke down why that system is preferred/valuable - even despite its flaws - then there is nothing I can say or do.

I really can't break it down any more simply than just repeating what I've already said. It isn't about the outcome. It's the unreasonable investment of both time and effort.

EDIT: It isn't "change for the sake of change without improvement" - you're just not finding improvement in the outcome. The improvement is in the time investment and it has always been about that. No-one is going to sweat losing a house in a lottery/raffle to one of the 100+ other people/bots who put in entries. They absolutely do sweat losing it to the dozen other people/bots after investing literal days of their finite life that they will never get back doing something so soul-wrenchingly boring, mundane, and exhausting.

The issue is and has been supply. People are still going to be upset at the lack of supply - back in 2018 it was the same system with virtually no one upset because the supply was there. Instead of changing how houses are obtained, the focus should be on petitioning SE to up the supply to a level that befits the growth - not the projected growth but the actual growth currently happening. Just a few months ago XIV was at 20mil players, now it's at 24mil. Thats 4mil more players who can't get houses unless theyre on underpopulated EU or JP datacenters.