Death unto Dawn page up

[KaerisKlyne]

NGL, reading this thread talk about lack of Major Character Death's in SHB while re watching the scene where Minfilia finally passed on for good gave me whiplash.

I honestly forgot that was kind of a major moment because I've been thinking of her as dead since HW, but you're right, it was pretty pivotal!

It feels like much of Shadowbringers also had the Scions, to varying degrees, coming to terms with the things happening around them and making peace with some things that have happened to them, or to people close to them. In that regard, I feel like we've been witness to those characters experiencing some of the consequences of their actions in the past throughout the 5.x series.

I also just don't think dying neeeeeds to be one of the consequences lol.

[Iscah]

Right, but at that point it was really only development for thancred and ryne. Urianger had none, Yshtola’s was solely raktika, alphy’s solely kholusia. It just felt really dry.

Urianger had loads of screen time and the most personality he's shown in ages. I particularly liked the way he and Thancred interact and bounce off each other.

People don't need to be suffering to build character.

[Kesey]

Urianger had loads of screen time and the most personality he's shown in ages. I particularly liked the way he and Thancred interact and bounce off each other.

People don't need to be suffering to build character.

I want to echo this comment, because Thancred and Urianger are at the point of cop buddy comedy. This wouldn't have been possible without Urianger's Shadowbringer's development.

In fact their relationship works so well, I'm hoping if we have to do another solo duty in 5.5 or 5.55 as another character, that it's as one of them doing banter while fighting their way out of trouble.

[Vyrerus]

The characters don't have to die.

Yes, they do. I actually love your post. I'd love if the screenwriters could come up with some sort of long term handicap that keeps our heroes out of the storyline. Yet, since it's a magical world, and since we already have an amputee fighting at comparable battle strength to the rest of the cast, the requests for magitek prosthetics and the like would just be incessant. The playerbase wouldn't buy it. "Oh, Thancred lost a leg? Why don't the Sharlayans give him a prosthetic. I mean, we have psychic funnels that shoot lasers, why not a robotic leg?"

As for sending a Scion back to the First, well, I'm sure that's what Y'shtola's hoping to achieve, since she wants to get with her Manther Daddy, but they have to make the mode of travel believable, after the entire hassle they just spent eons driving into us. I could only like that if it was done well, and I'm of the mind that if they take that approach, they'll just take the road of, "Don't think too hard, it's a fantasy." Like, bish, you just spent an entire expansion showing me how painstaking it is to cross the rift both body and soul. Even had an original soul comment that it was something beyond them. You really just gonna let this blind chick cross, who is dead three times over? UGH!

I think people in this thread are sort of somewhat making up what the other side thinks. Perhaps that's the only way they can perceive it, but the need for character death isn't something we're asking for lightly. I know it seems that way, but the fact of the matter is, is that they have never had the guts to truly kill off any of the main cast. Yes, I know Papalymo is a 1.0 character, but until I see some fact about him having more screen time than any of the other scions, then he might as well have been second string(Obviously more screen time from 1.0 up until his death).

Haurchefant's truth is that he was the one hospitable Ishgardian, pretty much until Heavensward. I knew he had scriptwriter's doom from the time I completed the quests involving him the first time around in Coerthas. He wasn't a main character though, just an easy to like one.

In my opinion, none of the cast have strong tells for scriptwriter's doom currently, but that's because we've gone for so long without being shown any real danger. When I say real danger, I mean danger for the main cast. We've seen them knocked off their feet a few times. We've seen them argue against a man who created god. We've seen them on the lam from a poison arrow or what have you. They come about every time, bright eyed and bushy tailed. Ready to exposit information and tell the WoL to get some rest(take a break player, your NPC parasocial commands!).

We've even seen the villains bring them back from their doom. It might as well be a slice of life anime at this point. What is FFXIV? Love Hina with some swords? We need stakes! (Steak Liara, so much steak....)

[Theodric]

I think people in this thread are sort of somewhat making up what the other side thinks.

That is, unfortunately, an issue that has been common around these parts for years. It's why I generally only post here before and after a new patch or expansion is due to go live.

I suspect there's a considerable amount of over investment in specific characters, too. I'm personally more interested in a compelling story in a similar vein to ARR and HW where the stakes felt high and consequences existed. If the finale marks the end of the main plot threads that began way back in ARR then it just makes sense to me to embrace that particular style of storytelling once more. Especially if we're supposedly dealing with a potential world wide apocalyptic threat far beyond any other that we've seen thus far.

I've yet to see anybody ask for death for the sake of death. Yet Final Fantasy games never really shy away from killing off major characters. With such a large cast and plenty of room for it to expand and refresh itself in the future...I really don't see it as the worst thing ever for one or two major deaths to occur amongst the main cast.

Traditionally, the single player Final Fantasy games worked with a much smaller number of characters after all. It happened there, so it stands to reason that it can happen here too.

[ICountFrom0]

I think people in this thread are sort of somewhat making up what the other side thinks.

Tis gotten quite off topic from what I tried to start, I do have to admit. Hopefully as long as I keep updating the front page as things are updated the topic will eventually come around. We'll actually have something to specialate from instead of just speculate on.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yes, they do.

. I could only like that if it was done well, and I\\\\'m of the mind that if they take that approach, they\\\\'ll just take the road of, "Don\\\\'t think too hard, it\\\\'s a fantasy." Like, bish, you just spent an entire expansion showing me how painstaking it is to cross the rift both body and soul. Even had an original soul comment that it was something beyond them. You really just gonna let this blind chick cross, who is dead three times over? UGH!

I think people in this thread are sort of somewhat making up what the other side thinks. Perhaps that\\\\'s the only way they can perceive it, but the need for character death isn\\\\'t something we\\\\'re asking for lightly. I know it seems that way, but the fact of the matter is, is that they have never had the guts to truly kill off any of the main cast. Yes, I know Papalymo is a 1.0 character, but until I see some fact about him having more screen time than any of the other scions, then he might as well have been second string(Obviously more screen time from 1.0 up until his death).

Haurchefant\\\\'s truth is that he was the one hospitable Ishgardian, pretty much until Heavensward. I knew he had scriptwriter\\\\'s doom from the time I completed the quests involving him the first time around in Coerthas. He wasn\\\\'t a main character though, just an easy to like one.

In my opinion, none of the cast have strong tells for scriptwriter\\\\'s doom currently, but that\\\\'s because we\\\\'ve gone for so long without being shown any real danger. When I say real danger, I mean danger for the main cast. We\\\\'ve seen them knocked off their feet a few times. We\\\\'ve seen them argue against a man who created god. We\\\\'ve seen them on the lam from a poison arrow or what have you. They come about every time, bright eyed and bushy tailed. Ready to exposit information and tell the WoL to get some rest(take a break player, your NPC parasocial commands!).

We\\\\'ve even seen the villains bring them back from their doom. It might as well be a slice of life anime at this point. What is FFXIV? Love Hina with some swords? We need stakes! (Steak Liara, so much steak....)

I agree with your last part so much lol. People seem to want this to be some slice of life game where we have all these “wholesome cute-filled moments” all the time and the heroes always get their way. What happened to Arr,Hw,and Sb. Where there were actual stakes and characters didn’t get their way all the time. I think a lot of it has to do with SE pandering to the community, seeing how people even to this day still cry about haurchefant lol. Fact of the matter is people need to be okay with actual consequences. It’s not a cute wholesome game. It’s a mature game with sometimes lighthearted moments(what it’s supposed to be anyways). I really hope 5.5 and or 6.0 gives people the wake up call they need that not everything is going to go their way.

[darcstar62]

The multiple fake-out deaths are the part that really bug me. You can get away with one, but 2 or 3 get tiresome fast. Even the "omg, girl, you can't do that" warning from Matoya regarding her sight has kind of lost any concern that it will actually have any long-term consquences. She has sooo much plot armor that anything that happens to her will never be taken at face-value at this point.

Which cultures believe in 6 and 7? Never heard that before! Intrigue maximum!

"Some Spanish-speaking areas believe cats have seven lives, while Arabic and Turkish mythology give cats six lives." Source

[Slatersev]

I agree with your last part so much lol. People seem to want this to be some slice of life game where we have all these “wholesome cute-filled moments” all the time and the heroes always get their way. What happened to Arr,Hw,and Sb. Where there were actual stakes and characters didn’t get their way all the time. I think a lot of it has to do with SE pandering to the community, seeing how people even to this day still cry about haurchefant lol. Fact of the matter is people need to be okay with actual consequences. It’s not a cute wholesome game. It’s a mature game with sometimes lighthearted moments(what it’s supposed to be anyways). I really hope 5.5 and or 6.0 gives people the wake up call they need that not everything is going to go their way.

SB has the most egregious survival of a character that should have died in the games history, lol.

Gosetsu and Yotsuyu surviving Doman Castle is the hardest the game ever backed out of a consequnce.

Though that really describes base Stormblood in its entirety, only two minor friendly NPC's died and I would bet most players wouldn't even remember there names.

[Bright-Flower]

SB has the most egregious survival of a character that should have died in the games history, lol.

Gosetsu and Yotsuyu surviving Doman Castle is the hardest the game ever backed out of a consequnce.

Though that really describes base Stormblood in its entirety, only two minor friendly NPC's died and I would bet most players wouldn't even remember there names.

Yeah.

And the whole Nanamo/Uldah situation was cleanly backpedaled to the status quo minus one Raubahn arm. So I wouldn't even really say ARR had consequences.

I mean I guess some random npcs died in the attack on the waking sands but nobody I remember. None of the main scions.

HW did have some. Horsefont died, Ysale died, Moenbryda died late ARR, and Popalymo didn't come back.

But the game has never been super heavy on consequence.

The attack on rhalgr's reach made us go to Doma I guess but the resistance didn't have to abandon their base.

Attacking Zenos in Doma had no negative consequences AT ALL and actually helped us in the long run.

Thancred and Yshtola have ostensibly had consequences of their lifestream dips but it never seems to actually pose a hinderance to them. Thancred can't use aether? he can still punch out a giant during the grand tourney or be super spy or badass gunbreaker tank etc.

Actual consequences are the exception in this story not the rule, and it's not just SHB that's written this way.