Monk has too many Positionals

[gumas]

except laden fist oppo punch, i never care with MNK positional unless the enemy is small and didnt move much, if the enemy is big like mammoth/wyvern size and above, i will (mostly) ignore the positional (just utilize the ignore positional skill if it up)

but then again, outside boss fight, it mostly mobs fight so you just end up doing aoe skill most of the time (which require no positional as MNK)

the same goes with other melee class, it just me but in casual content like duty finder, standard run etc, i think 90% nobody will care about that, iam sure they do the same too depend on their mood.

[wereotter]

except laden fist oppo punch, i never care with MNK positional unless the enemy is small and didnt move much, if the enemy is big like mammoth/wyvern size and above, i will (mostly) ignore the positional (just utilize the ignore positional skill if it up)

but then again, outside boss fight, it mostly mobs fight so you just end up doing aoe skill most of the time (which require no positional as MNK)

the same goes with other melee class, it just me but in casual content like duty finder, standard run etc, i think 90% nobody will care about that, iam sure they do the same too depend on their mood.

Going to say, the bigger bosses are actually easier to hit positions correctly over smaller bosses. Larger, more visible hit rings make it easy to see if you're hitting from the right side. Also remember you don't have to move all the way to the compass east or west of the boss to get to the flank, and you don't have to be on compass south to be at rear (see the graphic in my earlier post) It really only takes making a couple steps to get to the right point on the boss, but with a smaller hit ring you're more likely to overshoot your movement and move from left flank to right flank than with a larger boss ring.

[IruruCece]

except laden fist oppo punch, i never care with MNK positional unless the enemy is small and didnt move much, if the enemy is big like mammoth/wyvern size and above, i will (mostly) ignore the positional (just utilize the ignore positional skill if it up)

but then again, outside boss fight, it mostly mobs fight so you just end up doing aoe skill most of the time (which require no positional as MNK)

the same goes with other melee class, it just me but in casual content like duty finder, standard run etc, i think 90% nobody will care about that, iam sure they do the same too depend on their mood.

Dude, wereotter posted a picture on the previous page showing you where rear and flank end on every mob in the game where positionals are necessary. If you're not hitting them, it's not because they are too hard.

[RdehlikaJenma]

I've been leveling everything to 60 recently, and from my experience, Monk is decidedly more tricky than other melee jobs, I'll admit, and I DID have trouble with the positionals combined with two three-hit combos (It's fiddly moving to hit the positional while trying to reach for the 6 key) But I tried moving one of the combos to a different keybind location and found it considerably easier, and far more enjoyable. I'll admit that most of that change was due to having a gaming mouse, but I don't think it's the positionals that are the crux of the problem. To me it was the six different buttons to maintain the baseline combo, combined with tanks not moving the bosses to enable safer utilization of the positional bonuses (aka keeping the boss in a position where I was being forced to either sacrifice the bonus, or take damage from an AoE on the ground

[gumas]

Dude, wereotter posted a picture on the previous page showing you where rear and flank end on every mob in the game where positionals are necessary. If you're not hitting them, it's not because they are too hard.

i know, thats why for me positional is kinda useless outside boss fight, because outside boss we will always mobbing, and mobbing skill does not require positional at all.

as for boss fight, by "default" we will face either boss rear/flank side 90% of the time in which 3 positional skill requirement already met (either boot, true, demo or snap, twin, dragon) and since boss fight usually didnt move much, positioning is easy. even you dont do positional, since you will always facing rear/flank side of the enemy, you already doing 50% of your positional even without doing anything.

but at any rate (at least for me) in casual dungeon duty finder anything goes, i've seen dps doing worse by just doing standard 1-2-3 combo without any weaving or other skill and most of the time people just dont care ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

*i think "useless" is the wrong word (sorry english is not my main), what iam trying to say is, dont think too much about it, you dont need think so hard like "oh this skill i need to flank, oh next one i need to go rear etc" like i said, as MNK and as DPS by default you will always on the rear/flank of the enemy and that mean you already filled 50% of the positional skill quota, combine that with good rotation you already doing far better than 50% of the general players.

[IruruCece]

i know, thats why for me positional is kinda useless outside boss fight, because outside boss we will always mobbing, and mobbing skill does not require positional at all.

Which has been the case for a very long time, that doesn't mean positionals in general are bad or unnecessary. What it does say, however, is that SE's dungeon design overall isn't very compelling if they ultimately boil down to "Pull as much as you can survive, AoE the pack" while bosses are the only thing that require players to pay any real attention.

You're going to run into low-effort players in every game, that doesn't mean the devs should design their game around them. They are going to be low effort no matter how many concessions are made for them.

If nothing else, Monk positionals should not only stay in, they should also hit considerably harder than if they are missed, because we're seeing now what happens when SE de-incentivizes them to the extent they have, and players STILL aren't flocking to the job. Bad monks should perform considerably worse than those who put in any effort, anywhere from 20-30% worse. If someone thinks that's not fair, there's literally 9 (soon to be 10) other non-limited jobs they could play that don't have anywhere near as many positionals to land and will be closer to their gameplay preferences.

[gumas]

You're going to run into low-effort players in every game, that doesn't mean the devs should design their game around them. They are going to be low effort no matter how many concessions are made for them.

low effort? doing 50% (half) of the positional skill for me is not low effort at all, doing zero positional and only 1-2-3 combo without any skill weave in is what i called low effort. if 50% is still low to you, iam afraid your expectations is too high, i spend my time playing this game on casual "side" and never touch the top 10% endgame and i've seen people doing far far worse that just ignoring positional to the point i literally scream "what in the world are you doing" in my mind

[Ariel_Valmont]

People who don’t play MNK already killed greased lightning, how mind numbingly dumb do you all want to make this job.

Do the side set, then the back set, when you are comfortable with that, then you can start weaving in the right moves when needed.

You literally just need to stay on the bosses diagonal and side step one way or the other two move from flank/rear

[Ariel_Valmont]

The job has a learning curve to play proficiently, just like every other job in the game. This job has its steepest learning curve around hitting positionals and getting the flow of how your forms change the flow of your rotation. But as was stated, this is made easier once you just know how the boss's hit ring works. They tell you exactly where the rear ends and the flank begins.

I picked up the job back in Heavesnward and it took only maybe a week practicing for it to click and I was able to go about hitting the right position on the boss with the right move. Also remember that unlike it's other melee counterparts, monk has a VERY empty kit outside of its positional requirements. It doesn't have a trick attack window to plan around, multiple jumps to weave into combos, sens and kenki... it just has its chakras that generate randomly. If the job had the positions removed it would immediately become the most boring job in the game to play.

It’s already the most boring job in the game, thanks to the removal of greased lightning stacks.

[Mikey_R]

low effort? doing 50% (half) of the positional skill for me is not low effort at all, doing zero positional and only 1-2-3 combo without any skill weave in is what i called low effort. if 50% is still low to you, iam afraid your expectations is too high, i spend my time playing this game on casual "side" and never touch the top 10% endgame and i've seen people doing far far worse that just ignoring positional to the point i literally scream "what in the world are you doing" in my mind

Ironically sitting at one position and doing your rotation is less effort than going out of your way to hit no positionals. Infact, sitting at one location is as low effort as you can get.

Also, you seem to imply hitting all positionals is only reserved for the top 10% of people who do endgame. With enough practice, positionals are not hard to hit and you don't even have to think about them. If you start practicing positionals as you level and go through the dungeons, it will become second nature by level 50, or level 60 if you need to get used to Dragon Kick.

If you absolutely have to only stay on one side though, just make it the rear. Leaden Bootshine is too strong to ignore.