Galdjent Viis and mystel- what's behind those names on the first?

[Enkidoh]

Go to Eureka and look again. I'm not talking about the Shadow Dragon models. There are straight up Void Flood and Flame dragons that look identical to FFXIV dragons of Midgardsormr's descendants. As for demons being beastmen in FFXI, yes and no. They were allied and in charge of the Beastmen Confederacy, but they were ultimately still tied to the Dark Divinity and the dark crystal that made Raogrimm into the Shadowkeeper. They aren't like the Orcs, Quadav, or Yagudo. Their origin is never expounded on, and they are said to have completely vanished after the Crystal War was over until Raogrimm came back.

I concede on that point at least (about the void dragons), but as far as the Kindred go, I know the backstory about the Crystal War in FFXI did mention "they vanished completely" after the Shadowlord's defeat... except the player soon discovers to their chagrin the Northlands are still filled with them so they didn't really disappear at all (specifically Xarcarbard and Castle Zvhal). And yes, they are technically beastmen, but the game's bestiary does class them as 'demons' (so the SAM's 'Demon Killer' trait meant they did extra damage against them). I don't really remember there being any explanation exactly where the Kindred came from other than the Odin connection - but then FFXI's lore has always been very vague and obtuse.

Once again, I'm just going to put down their inclusion in FFXIV as Voidsent as just for coolness points and not representative of a deeper meaning, same as we also have FFXI goblins, qi'qirn and mamool'ja here in FFXIV which look identical to their FFXI brethern... yet have a totally different backstory and culture, even way of speaking. So basically, same name and appearence... and yet are totally different species.

[Vyrerus]

I concede on that point at least (about the void dragons), but as far as the Kindred go, I know the backstory about the Crystal War in FFXI did mention "they vanished completely" after the Shadowlord's defeat... except the player soon discovers to their chagrin the Northlands are still filled with them so they didn't really disappear at all (specifically Xarcarbard and Castle Zvhal). And yes, they are technically beastmen, but the game's bestiary does class them as 'demons' (so the SAM's 'Demon Killer' trait meant they did extra damage against them). I don't really remember there being any explanation exactly where the Kindred came from other than the Odin connection - but then FFXI's lore has always been very vague and obtuse.

Once again, I'm just going to put down their inclusion in FFXIV as Voidsent as just for coolness points and not representative of a deeper meaning, same as we also have FFXI goblins, qi'qirn and mamool'ja here in FFXIV which look identical to their FFXI brethern... yet have a totally different backstory and culture, even way of speaking. So basically, same name and appearence... and yet are totally different species.

A lot of XI was a vague mystery and I miss it sometimes! During Adoulin I was lowkey hoping for demon origins, but then we got Super Beings instead or whatever the robot lookin' things are that you gotta fight before you fight XI's Hades. Heh

And yeah, there's a lot of reuse mobs, just for ease of reusing assets. Just, in this case, they've put the void moniker on dragons all over the place. And have the Hydras which are Meracydian dragons per Azys Lla (or at the very least, Allagan experimentation on them). And there's several in WoD and Eureka heh.

Still hoping they have the dragons of XIV expound on the XIV's Provenance Watcher at some point.

This also reminds me that in the O10 fight, as Midgardsormr is readying his ultimate, he refers to the Dragon Star as the eldest star. Then launches the attack, "Protostar." Dragons be old...

[LineageRazor]

A lot of XI was a vague mystery and I miss it sometimes! During Adoulin I was lowkey hoping for demon origins, but then we got Super Beings instead or whatever the robot lookin' things are that you gotta fight before you fight XI's Hades. Heh

And yeah, there's a lot of reuse mobs, just for ease of reusing assets. Just, in this case, they've put the void moniker on dragons all over the place. And have the Hydras which are Meracydian dragons per Azys Lla (or at the very least, Allagan experimentation on them). And there's several in WoD and Eureka heh.

Still hoping they have the dragons of XIV expound on the XIV's Provenance Watcher at some point.

This also reminds me that in the O10 fight, as Midgardsormr is readying his ultimate, he refers to the Dragon Star as the eldest star. Then launches the attack, "Protostar." Dragons be old...

Adoulin really did take an interesting turn there. Unexpected Lovecraftian-style horror with the introduction of Ra'Kaznar and its denizens - all threatening largely due to their sheer alienness, and corruptiveness. But yeah, it was all NEW lore, rather than expanding on old stuff. I do consider Kindred to be a variety of Beastman, however; like Beastmen in the game, they have jobs (Warrior, Black Mage, Dark Knight, and Summoner) which other monsters (including other demons) do not. They're clearly associated with the Dark Divinity, but I don't think that they completely depend on him. As you say, though, the lore of the game never makes it clear.

On the topic of Void Dragons in FFXIV, whether the FFXI-inspired ones or otherwise, Voidsent almost never are transported between worlds in bodily form. They come across as spirits, and then kill/possess/inhabit native creatures to become the Voidsent we encounter in battles. So, even if a Void Dragon WERE called to another shard, they probably wouldn't be able to take their Source-dragon body along with them. They'd need to abandon it, and occupy some other creature on the Shard.

Again, though, they COULD bring knowledge along with them in doing so, which is a possible explanation as to how the Drahn race was named. Maybe.

[Vyrerus]

Adoulin really did take an interesting turn there. Unexpected Lovecraftian-style horror with the introduction of Ra'Kaznar and its denizens - all threatening largely due to their sheer alienness, and corruptiveness. But yeah, it was all NEW lore, rather than expanding on old stuff. I do consider Kindred to be a variety of Beastman, however; like Beastmen in the game, they have jobs (Warrior, Black Mage, Dark Knight, and Summoner) which other monsters (including other demons) do not. They're clearly associated with the Dark Divinity, but I don't think that they completely depend on him. As you say, though, the lore of the game never makes it clear.

On the topic of Void Dragons in FFXIV, whether the FFXI-inspired ones or otherwise, Voidsent almost never are transported between worlds in bodily form. They come across as spirits, and then kill/possess/inhabit native creatures to become the Voidsent we encounter in battles. So, even if a Void Dragon WERE called to another shard, they probably wouldn't be able to take their Source-dragon body along with them. They'd need to abandon it, and occupy some other creature on the Shard.

Again, though, they COULD bring knowledge along with them in doing so, which is a possible explanation as to how the Drahn race was named. Maybe.

I mean, again, sort of. We know that dragon bodies CAN cross the rift. Hraesvelgr and Middy confirm it. The Hydra bodies in world of Darkness confirm it too. Unless we're gonna jump on the ship of hydras aren't dragons. But there are also a lot of other Voidsent that cross onto the Source in Eureka with the only explanation being they sensed all the tasty aether and hopped on over. I'm under the assumption that the dragons we see in Eureka came across the void as all the other voidsent did.

We get this from the Fafnir fate:

"As the old saying goes: every wyrm's ending is just a voidsent wyrm's beginning. Banish this particularly vicious example, and remember that no one's to blame—except the adventurers that killed the high dragon whose dying breath summoned forth this monstrosity."

[LineageRazor]

We get this from the Fafnir fate:

"As the old saying goes: every wyrm's ending is just a voidsent wyrm's beginning. Banish this particularly vicious example, and remember that no one's to blame—except the adventurers that killed the high dragon whose dying breath summoned forth this monstrosity."

Yeah - I read this as the dying Wyrm summoned a Voidsent into its own dying body, essentially reanimating itself as a Voidsent, much like a Succubus reanimates a woman's corpse to create its host body. So, once again, only the Voidsent's spirit crosses the Void, not its body. Ahriman animate creatures' eyes to form their bodies on the source.

I think it's mentioned somewhere that a sufficiently powerful portal CAN allow Voidsent to pass bodily across the rift, but such a thing is rare enough that EVERY Voidsent we encounter on the Source can be assumed to be a Voidsent's spirit animating a Source body, unless we're explicitly told otherwise.

And yeah - unless they're explicitly confirmed to be Dragons, we can assume Hydras aren't dragons. They're dragon-like certainly, but just about any lizard can be said to be so (raptors, efts, etc).

[Vyrerus]

Yeah - I read this as the dying Wyrm summoned a Voidsent into its own dying body, essentially reanimating itself as a Voidsent, much like a Succubus reanimates a woman's corpse to create its host body. So, once again, only the Voidsent's spirit crosses the Void, not its body. Ahriman animate creatures' eyes to form their bodies on the source.

I think it's mentioned somewhere that a sufficiently powerful portal CAN allow Voidsent to pass bodily across the rift, but such a thing is rare enough that EVERY Voidsent we encounter on the Source can be assumed to be a Voidsent's spirit animating a Source body, unless we're explicitly told otherwise.

And yeah - unless they're explicitly confirmed to be Dragons, we can assume Hydras aren't dragons. They're dragon-like certainly, but just about any lizard can be said to be so (raptors, efts, etc).

The Fate in Azys Lla, No Greater Goryshche

"Even the mighty dragons themselves were subject to the Allagan Empire's incessant tinkering with the very laws of nature─Goryshche is one such product of that imperial hubris. Aimlessly roaming the Azys Lla wastes, the multi-headed abomination silently seeks an end to five thousand years of suffering."

[LineageRazor]

The Fate in Azys Lla, No Greater Goryshche

"Even the mighty dragons themselves were subject to the Allagan Empire's incessant tinkering with the very laws of nature─Goryshche is one such product of that imperial hubris. Aimlessly roaming the Azys Lla wastes, the multi-headed abomination silently seeks an end to five thousand years of suffering."

That's an example where, yes, as I said, we have a Hydra that is explicitly stated to be a dragon. Dragons can take whatever form they want when they grow up, and this one chose to take a hydra-like form.

It does not mean that all Hydras are dragons. When I said "unless they're explicitly confirmed to be Dragons", I did not mean to imply that finding ONE Hydra that happens to be a dragon would prove the point.

Goryshche is a hydra. (One of several in Azys Lla, actually.)
Goryshche is stated to be a dragon. (It is likely all the creatures in Gamma Quadrant are dragons, and the Hydras are no exception. I agree this is likely.)
Therefore, all hydras are dragons. (Logical leap; questionable. Dragons can take many forms, including that of a hydra, but that doesn't mean all hydras are dragons.)
Five-Headed Dragon is a hydra.
Therefore, Five-Headed Dragon is a Dragon. (Logical leap; questionable. Voidsent can also take many forms, including that of a hydra.)
Therefore Dragons exist in the Void.
Therefore, Dragons can exist someplace other than the Source.
Therefore, Dragons can exist on the First.

There are many logical leaps there that are not necessarily warranted - not the least of which is that the Allagans ARE one of those rare cases I mentioned who were able to create a powerful enough gate to allow bodily passage between the Source and the Void. Could they have created a gate to the First? Possibly - but we have no evidence that they ever had any inclination to do so. Xande was entirely focused on the Void, from what little we know. While I personally think Five-Headed is just a hydra-looking Voidsent, it's entirely possible that Amon crammed a couple of dragons bodily through the gate in their experiments in creating one large enough to allow the Cloud of Darkness passage.

Basically, finding a category of monster that exists in both places is not enough, due to the shape-changing abilities of both Voidsent and Dragons. These creatures can LOOK like just about anything. Unless we see a creature on the First that is undeniably referred to as one of Midgardsormr's descendants, we can assume that Midgardsormr's descendants exist on the Source, and the Source alone. Even if we got a boss on the first that was the spitting image of Nidhogg or Hraesvalgr, I'd still maintain that they are not Middy-type Dragons unless it was explicitly stated.

[Iscah]

I'm under the assumption that the dragons we see in Eureka came across the void as all the other voidsent did.

We get this from the Fafnir fate:

I'm sure there's at least one other FATE in Anemos that specifically notes a monster's corpse was left by the adventurers who killed it and got taken over by a voidsent. It's an invitation but not necessarily anything to do with the dragon summoning it.

The dragons in Eureka may (more likely) simply be living dragons from the Source, not counting any taken over by voidsent in the meanwhile.