Tired of Zenos (spoilers)

[linayar]

And who is the arbiter of what conflict is unnecessary or not? Were the animals wrong to aggressively defend the forest? Were the humans wrong to try to make a living in the forest to defend themselves? And who truly started this conflict in Princess Mononoke? Who is the evil party in the conflict?

That would depend on the story. I am only responding to you saying they are rebelling just because they don't like a form of government that you say is not ruled by an evil person. That means the rebellion is unnecessary.

Just because you disagree with their viewpoint does not mean you should automatically see them as evil.

It's not a matter of disagreeing. It's a matter of the conflict they are causing.

[Edax]

That would depend on the story. I am only responding to you saying they are rebelling just because they don't like a form of government that you say is not ruled by an evil person. That means the rebellion is unnecessary.

Velvet Revolutions are extremely rare, working within the system to overthrow an autocracy is not exactly realistic. Conflict is often the best option out of many bad options. That does not mean the conflict is evil.

[Bright-Flower]

Velvet Revolutions are extremely rare, working within the system to overthrow an autocracy is not exactly realistic. Conflict is often the best option out of many bad options. That does not mean the conflict is evil.

Yeah. When the system has things stacked against you, playing by the rules those in power lay out for you isn't a good way to free yourself. Take FFXIV for example we don't free ala mhigo and doma by working within Garlemald's corrupt system. In Stormblood the good guys are the proactive ones instigating the conflict to free these provinces, and the empire is more reactionary to what the rebels are doing to maintain an injust status quo.

[linayar]

Conflict is often the best option out of many bad options. That does not mean the conflict is evil.

Yes, it is, when you default to think it's ok to just overthrow an existing government because you felt like it. That's anarchy.

[Edax]

Yes, it is, when you default to think it's ok to just overthrow an existing government because you felt like it. That's anarchy.

I just said it is often the best option out of many bad options, I didn't say you default to it. And why is overthrowing an existing government definitively "evil"? And why is anarchy definitively "evil"?
Do you consider the United States definitively "evil" for overthrowing British rule? Is it really all so simple?

[linayar]

I just said it is often the best option out of many bad options, I didn't say you default to it. And why is overthrowing an existing government definitively "evil"? And why is anarchy definitively "evil"?
Do you consider the United States definitively "evil" for overthrowing British rule? Is it really all so simple?

Surely you are aware of the Declaration of Independence, so your example is not even what we are discussing about unless we've been discussing different topics all along.

[Edax]

That would depend on the story. I am only responding to you saying they are rebelling just because they don't like a form of government that you say is not ruled by an evil person. That means the rebellion is unnecessary.

It's not a matter of disagreeing. It's a matter of the conflict they are causing.

Yes, it is, when you default to think it's ok to just overthrow an existing government because you felt like it. That's anarchy.

Do you consider the United States definitively "evil" for overthrowing British rule? Is it really all so simple?

Surely you are aware of the Declaration of Independence, so your example is not even what we are discussing about unless we've been discussing different topics all along.

Is it not?

[linayar]

Is it not?

The Declaration of Independence is the US stating their reasoning for their war of independence. It was not simply about rebelling because they felt like it.

[Edax]

That would depend on the story. I am only responding to you saying they are rebelling just because they don't like a form of government that you say is not ruled by an evil person. That means the rebellion is unnecessary.

It's not a matter of disagreeing. It's a matter of the conflict they are causing.

Yes, it is, when you default to think it's ok to just overthrow an existing government because you felt like it. That's anarchy.

Do you consider the United States definitively "evil" for overthrowing British rule? Is it really all so simple?

Surely you are aware of the Declaration of Independence, so your example is not even what we are discussing about unless we've been discussing different topics all along.

Nope, they didn't feel like just wanting to be in a different government for no reason. They felt like the ruling government was unjust. We were talking about the opposite kind of emperor.

The Declaration of Independence is the US stating their reasoning for their war of independence. It was not simply about rebelling because they felt like it.

But you said they felt the ruling government was unjust.

When you create a conflict unnecessarily, then you are evil regardless of your reasoning. If you do not wish to be under a certain form of government, you work within the system to secede from the empire (assuming you are part of a political entity with the same view of government) or you (individually) leave the empire.

Doesn't matter what I think about a historical king, but what the colonists think.

But in fictional story, if you're going to say that the emperor is not evil, then the rebels are either mislead/wrong or outright evil for trying to start a rebellion.

It depends on the story. If you're going to have a conflict with actual killing and you're expecting me to take side, then there must be good and evil, otherwise the conflict is meaningless and just a simple competition between two sides with no killing would have been a better way to frame the story.

You don't have to take sides. Princess Mononoke is fiction and you don't have to take a side in that conflict.

And FFXIV?

I cannot keep up with these moving goal posts.

[linayar]

I cannot keep up with these moving goal posts.

There is no moving goal post. You're just wandering off from FFXIV to Star Wars to US independence to Mononoke, and I'm responding to each.

My point remains that Zenos being the way he is does not make the conflict unnatural or whatever as it serves the plot, just like the Emperor being evil. The US war is irrelevant and stories not having evil also depends on the story and has nothing to do with stories that do have an evil side.