What is ERP?

[Keramory]

It's the quickest way to get Chris Hansen knocking on your door, that's what it is.

I will say if nothing else, ERP'ers are brave. You have zero clue whos behind that other character and it just seems like rolling the dice every time. Which also kind of makes this whole erp movement on the forums atm a little weird. Of course I'd never be so disingenuous as to say others are actively advocating for this specifically, but basically a bunch of people on here are indirectly fighting for the right for 15 year olds to be catgirl escorts to promote themselves on PF... and it's kind of creepy when you think about it.

edit- I'm sure this will make some dedicated RP'ers upset. Again, nothing against you and I'd hope and assuming you don't want kids mixed in this. Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

[Saefinn]

It's the quickest way to get Chris Hansen knocking on your door, that's what it is.

I will say if nothing else, ERP'ers are brave. You have zero clue whos behind that other character and it just seems like rolling the dice every time. Which also kind of makes this whole erp movement on the forums atm a little weird. Of course I'd never be so disingenuous as to say others are actively advocating for this specifically, but basically a bunch of people on here are indirectly fighting for the right for 15 year olds to be catgirl escorts to promote themselves on PF... and it's kind of creepy when you think about it.

edit- I'm sure this will make some dedicated RP'ers upset. Again, nothing against you and I'd hope and assuming you don't want kids mixed in this. Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

I think this is of course where the clause about not breaking the law comes in and I know Yoshi P came pretty hard on that one. I think people who actively seek ERP and advertise ERP venues put themselves at a greater risk and I think it's why YoshiP in an interview said to report them and they investigate. From my reading, there are venues that try to do a lot to self-police and try to avoid this from happening.

It's a risk outside of the online community as well or through dating apps and so on where people can lie about their age. A 16 year old could pull off the look of a 20 year old and I don't know many people in the real world who ask for ID from people they hook up with. How this is seen legally of course will vary from country to country. But for sure, do everything you can to mitigate that risk.

Honestly, I don't know how much of a risk there is, whether it's a perceived risk or an active one. I think the view from SE's side is do so at your own risk but you break the law of your country, you'll have actions taken against your account. I wouldn't want to curb people's engagement of these activities, especially if we're talking ERP as in writing erotica and not engaging in cybersex but at the same time, not want to see somebody vulnerable or unable to give consent being exploited. A scorched earth approach or banning it out right if anything could instead push the activities underground, which could make policing it worse especially as these communities self police and from reading comments last couple of days it sounds like people who run such events co-operate with GM's, so I suspect if in their self policing they find somebody doing something unsuitable, they can report it straight away (people are less inclined if they're worried they'll get banned too), so I imagine it probably works that way, but maybe there is better insight from somebody else. Either way, I think the GM's probably have the best data on this to moderate what's going on, particularly as I expect it's something people report a lot especially after YoshiP said "report it" and he said they have legal advisors for lots of different countries, so I expect what they are doing to moderate such activities probably is going to be the most appropriate.

I'd say if somebody's gonna do it, be confident the person you're engaging with is within the age of consent and they give consent. For me, given how I RP, I'd never ERP unless I know the person well enough and trust the person well enough & it made sense and worked within the context of the characters and their point in character development and story, because I am very keen on what's called the "In Character/Out Of Character" divide, I am not my characters, I write my characters. And some people self insert into their characters and I wouldn't want to do this kind of thing with somebody who's putting themselves into it and that can create all kinds of problems that I don't think are worth it. But I am not so prudish that I'd avoid writing something saucy if that's where things led to.

[Ashemmi]

Honestly, I don't know how much of a risk there is, whether it's a perceived risk or an active one.

Quite a bit honestly. We tend to lean on a few crutches when assuring ourselves that things are fine the way they are.

1) Online interactions are ESRB Unrated.

Correct, because they can't be. There is no way to tell what a live person might say or do. We're not on a ten-second delay with a moderator on the buzzer button, or dead air like in a radio station. It's real-time and unmoderated. Unrated is exactly that, not a rating. It's not some magical pass that allows for Mature or Adult activity. The game itself is rated Teen. Our ToS supports that by stating we should act appropriately for a 13 year old audience.

2) It's only writing, and is done in-character.

Well.. Raise your hand if anyone you've written with has broken separation. Raise your hand if someone has gotten "the feels". Raise your hand if someone projected. Raise your hand if someone grew attached. Raise your hand if someone used I/YOU when describing.

Now that most of the hands are off the keyboard, I'll continue. You can control you, not the other person. Then there is the pesky problem of "Communicating with a Minor for Immoral Purposes." Common language in those laws includes: "An invitation or inducement to engage in behavior constituting indecent liberties with or without consideration." An invitation. Not the act. Merely asking. Let that sink in a moment.

While odds are Chris Hansen (referenced in a previous post) won't come knocking, there have been plenty of arrests made for cybering minors.

If we within the community SOMETIMES have difficultly telling the two apart, how do you think those glorious words will read to a judge or jury.

I too am not so prudish to avoid writing with someone that I have developed a rapport and trust with. Running a brothel where the cost of entry is gil and some very subjective "age" verification, or standing in the 'Sands running off with the first person who comes along. Fire is getting played with there in a big way. It's only a matter of time.

If I recall correctly, a certain brothel on Balmung took heat a year or more ago, having actually included a minor.

[Saefinn]

Quite a bit honestly. We tend to lean on a few crutches when assuring ourselves that things are fine the way they are.

1) Online interactions are ESRB Unrated.

Correct, because they can't be. There is no way to tell what a live person might say or do. We're not on a ten-second delay with a moderator on the buzzer button, or dead air like in a radio station. It's real-time and unmoderated. Unrated is exactly that, not a rating. It's not some magical pass that allows for Mature or Adult activity. The game itself is rated Teen. Our ToS supports that by stating we should act appropriately for a 13 year old audience.

2) It's only writing, and is done in-character.

Well.. Raise your hand if anyone you've written with has broken separation. Raise your hand if someone has gotten "the feels". Raise your hand if someone projected. Raise your hand if someone grew attached. Raise your hand if someone used I/YOU when describing.

Now that most of the hands are off the keyboard, I'll continue. You can control you, not the other person. Then there is the pesky problem of "Communicating with a Minor for Immoral Purposes." Common language in those laws includes: "An invitation or inducement to engage in behavior constituting indecent liberties with or without consideration." An invitation. Not the act. Merely asking. Let that sink in a moment.

While odds are Chris Hansen (referenced in a previous post) won't come knocking, there have been plenty of arrests made for cybering minors.

If we within the community SOMETIMES have difficultly telling the two apart, how do you think those glorious words will read to a judge or jury.

I too am not so prudish to avoid writing with someone that I have developed a rapport and trust with. Running a brothel where the cost of entry is gil and some very subjective "age" verification, or standing in the 'Sands running off with the first person who comes along. Fire is getting played with there in a big way. It's only a matter of time.

If I recall correctly, a certain brothel on Balmung took heat a year or more ago, having actually included a minor.

I can understand all this and I think a fair argument. Ultimately, you don't want to find yourself in that situation for doing something you love with zero ill intent.

Reading into Teppie's posts too, it sounds like in the particular example they gave that a predator was ousted, GM's contacted, police involved and them being ostracized by the ERP community. It leaves me with the question is could that be a benefit to these communities also existing? Where the responsible members can be Chris Hansen? At least I wonder if them having an open, honest and transparent relationship (as implied get Teppie's posts) in their efforts to keep themselves clean means they stand a better chance of catching out people exploit or take advantage of minors versus the activities being banned? And thus not deal with in such a open and transparent way. It may more a question for those who partake and of course the GM's who moderate this.

It does make me wonder why if that's why they don't outrightly ban it when it has those risks.

[Teppie]

Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

A lot of it comes down to knowing the community. I don't take on clients if they don't already have a reputation in the ERP community because if they aren't an established person, as you said, there would be a non-zero chance of interacting with a minor if you're blindly going after anyone who tries to initiate. For me there has to be a 0% margin of error or I'm wholly uncomfortable with even the potential. For people that I don't have any trust in we just guide them to the bar/lounge RP and internally put a ban on taking it any further than that unless we can 100% feel comfortable and confident they are not a minor. Normally what happens is they request someone and we'll just brick wall them with "Well nobody is available right now. Let's just focus on progressing our characters storyline a bit more." I'd rather pass over 100 genuine adult clients to avoid that 1 minor who's pretending to be an adult.

Another thing is going with established venues minimizes that risk because there is no way FC leaders are going to destroy their reputation, their FC and their members by introducing that level of risk to their clients. Not to mention a lot of FC's may have 'anchor members' or people known across the greater ERP community for their skill, artwork, writing etc. (Not a real term for it, that's what I just call it) I know we have several members that have alts sprinkled around other FC's that are very well known. If they have you as a client it's kind of the gold standard of writing.

There was one FC leader on our server who willfully interacted with a minor, when the FC leader found out they were under 18 they continued to pressure them into ERP acts. That minor went to another FC leader with evidence on what happened, and that person got a pretty miserable reputation after the fact (Not that they were in a stellar position before hand but that's another story entirely.) GM's got involved, I believe the police were called there was this whole drama fiasco, and a good amount of people banned him from their events/venues/discords for that reason alone. They even got mocked in NN for 'grooming' which was a very well deserved reputation. The ERP community has its problems but I like to believe we draw a hard line on that.

I truly believe that people in the community are of the mind that involving children even accidentally is abhorrent. That's nightmare fuel stuff.