What is ERP?

[Saefinn]

Quite a bit honestly. We tend to lean on a few crutches when assuring ourselves that things are fine the way they are.

1) Online interactions are ESRB Unrated.

Correct, because they can't be. There is no way to tell what a live person might say or do. We're not on a ten-second delay with a moderator on the buzzer button, or dead air like in a radio station. It's real-time and unmoderated. Unrated is exactly that, not a rating. It's not some magical pass that allows for Mature or Adult activity. The game itself is rated Teen. Our ToS supports that by stating we should act appropriately for a 13 year old audience.

2) It's only writing, and is done in-character.

Well.. Raise your hand if anyone you've written with has broken separation. Raise your hand if someone has gotten "the feels". Raise your hand if someone projected. Raise your hand if someone grew attached. Raise your hand if someone used I/YOU when describing.

Now that most of the hands are off the keyboard, I'll continue. You can control you, not the other person. Then there is the pesky problem of "Communicating with a Minor for Immoral Purposes." Common language in those laws includes: "An invitation or inducement to engage in behavior constituting indecent liberties with or without consideration." An invitation. Not the act. Merely asking. Let that sink in a moment.

While odds are Chris Hansen (referenced in a previous post) won't come knocking, there have been plenty of arrests made for cybering minors.

If we within the community SOMETIMES have difficultly telling the two apart, how do you think those glorious words will read to a judge or jury.

I too am not so prudish to avoid writing with someone that I have developed a rapport and trust with. Running a brothel where the cost of entry is gil and some very subjective "age" verification, or standing in the 'Sands running off with the first person who comes along. Fire is getting played with there in a big way. It's only a matter of time.

If I recall correctly, a certain brothel on Balmung took heat a year or more ago, having actually included a minor.

I can understand all this and I think a fair argument. Ultimately, you don't want to find yourself in that situation for doing something you love with zero ill intent.

Reading into Teppie's posts too, it sounds like in the particular example they gave that a predator was ousted, GM's contacted, police involved and them being ostracized by the ERP community. It leaves me with the question is could that be a benefit to these communities also existing? Where the responsible members can be Chris Hansen? At least I wonder if them having an open, honest and transparent relationship (as implied get Teppie's posts) in their efforts to keep themselves clean means they stand a better chance of catching out people exploit or take advantage of minors versus the activities being banned? And thus not deal with in such a open and transparent way. It may more a question for those who partake and of course the GM's who moderate this.

It does make me wonder why if that's why they don't outrightly ban it when it has those risks.

[Teppie]

Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

A lot of it comes down to knowing the community. I don't take on clients if they don't already have a reputation in the ERP community because if they aren't an established person, as you said, there would be a non-zero chance of interacting with a minor if you're blindly going after anyone who tries to initiate. For me there has to be a 0% margin of error or I'm wholly uncomfortable with even the potential. For people that I don't have any trust in we just guide them to the bar/lounge RP and internally put a ban on taking it any further than that unless we can 100% feel comfortable and confident they are not a minor. Normally what happens is they request someone and we'll just brick wall them with "Well nobody is available right now. Let's just focus on progressing our characters storyline a bit more." I'd rather pass over 100 genuine adult clients to avoid that 1 minor who's pretending to be an adult.

Another thing is going with established venues minimizes that risk because there is no way FC leaders are going to destroy their reputation, their FC and their members by introducing that level of risk to their clients. Not to mention a lot of FC's may have 'anchor members' or people known across the greater ERP community for their skill, artwork, writing etc. (Not a real term for it, that's what I just call it) I know we have several members that have alts sprinkled around other FC's that are very well known. If they have you as a client it's kind of the gold standard of writing.

There was one FC leader on our server who willfully interacted with a minor, when the FC leader found out they were under 18 they continued to pressure them into ERP acts. That minor went to another FC leader with evidence on what happened, and that person got a pretty miserable reputation after the fact (Not that they were in a stellar position before hand but that's another story entirely.) GM's got involved, I believe the police were called there was this whole drama fiasco, and a good amount of people banned him from their events/venues/discords for that reason alone. They even got mocked in NN for 'grooming' which was a very well deserved reputation. The ERP community has its problems but I like to believe we draw a hard line on that.

I truly believe that people in the community are of the mind that involving children even accidentally is abhorrent. That's nightmare fuel stuff.

[SturmChurro]

I think it'd be better to not have adult, or rather explicit, content on any of the in-game channels. As I said previously, I think SE is too lenient. ERP will exist regardless, but none of us should have to see it. Definitely not on the party finder of a game. Out of sight out of mind.

[van_arn]

I think it'd be better to not have adult, or rather explicit, content on any of the in-game channels. As I said previously, I think SE is too lenient. ERP will exist regardless, but none of us should have to see it. Definitely not on the party finder of a game. Out of sight out of mind.

This. I recognize things will exist when I don't see them, I just don't want to see them. Exhibitionists should be unwelcome.

[DreadCrow]

It's the quickest way to get Chris Hansen knocking on your door, that's what it is.

I will say if nothing else, ERP'ers are brave. You have zero clue whos behind that other character and it just seems like rolling the dice every time. Which also kind of makes this whole erp movement on the forums atm a little weird. Of course I'd never be so disingenuous as to say others are actively advocating for this specifically, but basically a bunch of people on here are indirectly fighting for the right for 15 year olds to be catgirl escorts to promote themselves on PF... and it's kind of creepy when you think about it.

edit- I'm sure this will make some dedicated RP'ers upset. Again, nothing against you and I'd hope and assuming you don't want kids mixed in this. Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

Most of the people I know that ERP would absolutely not play with a minor. If they found out they did, they would tell them when what they did was unacceptable and block them. I don't ERP but wouldn't anything long-term with a minor since I don't necessarily think the themes I like (war, crime, trauma, horror) are things I really thing kids should be deeply immersing themselves into. And you are right, you absolutely can't tell if kids are going to get involved in it... Sometimes, kids absolutely lie about their age. But should role-players get punished? I don't think so...

It's the same reason why most of the time, bars won't actually get in trouble if they sell to someone with a fake ID. You shouldn't punish people for lying kids. You absolutely can and should punish someone who is deliberately preying on minors though. But let's not pretend that even the average ERPer does that.

I think it'd be better to not have adult, or rather explicit, content on any of the in-game channels. As I said previously, I think SE is too lenient. ERP will exist regardless, but none of us should have to see it. Definitely not on the party finder of a game. Out of sight out of mind.

To be fair, until recently, most of the ERP venues weren't advertised on the Party Finder. And from what I've heard for some people, second hand (so I can't really state if its true), is that the biggest "promoter" you'll see on Party Finder (at least on Primal) wasn't even originally involved with the community; they basically read the Kotaku article and shifted the focus of their FC to providing ERP, for the lulz and gil... Even alienating old members. I.E.: They are absolutely grifters, on all accounts.

[Penthea]

To be fair, until recently, most of the ERP venues weren't advertised on the Party Finder. And from what I've heard for some people, second hand (so I can't really state if its true), is that the biggest "promoter" you'll see on Party Finder (at least on Primal) wasn't even originally involved with the community; they basically read the Kotaku article and shifted the focus of their FC to providing ERP, for the lulz and gil... Even alienating old members. I.E.: They are absolutely grifters, on all accounts.

All the more reason to forbid advertising erp in PF.

[DreadCrow]

All the more reason to forbid advertising erp in PF.

I won't disagree. The only issue I had, is the people who make arguments that no RP should be advertised in the Party Finder, or that was totally alright that standard role-players got caught in the crossfire. That was sadly something that was a thing in the other thread and I can't agree with that.

[Penthea]

I won't disagree. The only issue I had, is the people who make arguments that no RP should be advertised in the Party Finder, or that was totally alright that standard role-players got caught in the crossfire. That was sadly something that was a thing in the other thread and I can't agree with that.

Completely agree. I think people should be able to use PF for whatever content they wish to do in a group as long as that content doesn't have any sexual or anti-social activity (anti-social meaning harassment in this context). A line needs to be drawn somewhere and I personally feel that should be the line.

[SturmChurro]

I won't disagree. The only issue I had, is the people who make arguments that no RP should be advertised in the Party Finder, or that was totally alright that standard role-players got caught in the crossfire. That was sadly something that was a thing in the other thread and I can't agree with that.

I tend to agree with that GM, RP shouldn't be advertised in PF either, but at the very least SE should deal with the blatant adult listings. RPers should be asking for more social features, so we all can have a better curated experience.

[Ashemmi]

shifted the focus of their FC to providing ERP, for the lulz and gil...

For the lulz and gil extends beyond just one FC. It's out there, quite a bit of it. They aren't playing it safe, or even really attempting. This uptick you reference is from the very real arms race that's happening for customers.

Saefinn had a good point, some of it 'may' be doing good for the community. Some of the venues are handling things better than others. Most are dramatically better than much of what we get just walking in the 'Sands. Yet it really doesn't need to be front and center or quite so readily available in the public eye.

Running a venue for a long time (18+ SFW), I visited a number of venues for ideas and comparisons. Not once was I ever approached about age, no matter the establishment. More than once services were offered or emotes given that were very...direct. In other venues, there were fantastic conversations and well-thought-out RP.

Some of it might be on the people who are hired, but it still falls under the venue regardless of their intent.

In PF right now, a "cute fox is looking for a new owner", wonder what that one means....
There are a handful also promoting ERP directly with price lists, and a couple that word it more softly.