The 3-Strikes Policy - Is it really a good thing?

[Awha]

You are taking the prison system metaphor and hypothetical too far. This is a game. Nobody knows your past infractions in game. This is technically a "perfect" system in which nobody but the judges know your history and it only comes into question when you relapse. Your re-integration into the system has no lingering or visible marks that others you interact with in anything relevant to the game can see or access.

It would only be a worry for those who have "heavy" strikes on their record, as it should be. Do not recommit. Do not lapse. REMEMBER that this is your last chance.



Thank you for going back. I know there's a lot to sift through as I can be verbose. As you say.. exactly as I feel, infractions should have weight and that weight should determine both punishment and permanence.

This is why I tend to not bring up IRL situations, but since you brought it up I went with it. That being said sure it is a game why make the choice between certain actions? That is part of the problem we do not know, the rules are vague and what is viewed as harassment to one may not be the same to another. That does not excuse the action and they should be punished but if said person learned that they cannot making comments that they did to everyone maybe it common amongst their group of friends who knows the reason why. That said if they learned from their mistakes and have not done anything for x amount of time why not as a sign of good will get rid of their strikes. In the end nothing really changes cause. Say if you have strikes on your account and do nothing wrong ever again it more or less functions as not having any strikes on your account in the first place. Unless for some reason you think people will math our their negative actions and say I can do one bad thing every 4 years or something cause that is when my strikes reset? I do not think most people will have that kind for foresight for harassment or cheating in a video game.

Though this is all why I said we should just get rid of the warning system, do something wrong get a 3 day suspension right off the bat, but make sure to clearly state what they did wrong. If this leads to witch hunting instead of self reflection then take harsher action at that point.

[Saefinn]

I think you'd have trouble justifying the 3 strike system even if they were handed out in a completely consistent way by a completely fair and uniform arbiter, but this couldn't be the case realistically, and the discussion of the week has basically highlighted that.

Ultimately the current system only serves to have a chilling effect on in-game socalization. Never say anything to anybody, you never know who is listening and how they might take it, even for a conversation they're not a part of. Just use discord.

Not even to that extreme. I'm a heavily social player in the game and almost am 8 years in. I've never felt my in-game socialistion has been negatively impacted. Because most of the time it's common sense. Because most social interactions between people isn't offensive or bad or something people can really report you for (and the ToS at least says "a reasonable person finds offensive" which I think gives wiggle room to say 'no' to people who're offended for something really stupid or people who trying to use this ruling maliciously).

When you don't know somebody you don't generally have an "anything goes" with what you say, for certain topics you might get to know a person better first. EG. I have an offensive humour, but I will always gauge my audience as my intention is to make people laugh, not to offend. Once you get to know somebody, you can know what you can get away with.

What happened recently was shown to be an error in judgment by a GM that was reversed. If anything I find what happened to be encouraging, because it's a human run system, humans make mistakes and I feel the system needs to be able to react to error rather than sticking by a decision once it has been made.

[Nothv13]

You're not given information on what the report was for though so unless you've said approximately 1 thing in game ever, good luck figuring out what you're not supposed to do. Changes of behavior require specifics and consistency. Otherwise you just teach people how to be toxic the "right" way.

This. I see so many on the forums saying that you shouldn't have to be told what you did, you should just know, and I cannot think of a single place that actually takes correcting bad behaviors seriously that only tells yo the rule you broke and not the actions that broke it (almost always with some sort of evidence also presented)

[Krotoan]

You're not given information on what the report was for though so unless you've said approximately 1 thing in game ever, good luck figuring out what you're not supposed to do. Changes of behavior require specifics and consistency. Otherwise you just teach people how to be toxic the "right" way.

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.

Unless for some reason you think people will math our their negative actions and say I can do one bad thing every 4 years or something cause that is when my strikes reset? I do not think most people will have that kind for foresight for harassment or cheating in a video game.
.

This is exactly what people will do. This is why game companies as a whole do not advertise or detail how their punishment systems or anticheats work. People inevitably game the system. "Oh hey, my strikes reset, I can now say the most horrible things I want to and harass players again until I get another action.". This is what trolls ARE. They live to cause as much strife as possible.

[Lauren]

I haven't had an issue with warnings or anything but if there are people who are actively scarred of communicating in game because of this rule set, then surely having it "time out" after some time would be the best option?

Maybe a strike should hold for 2 yearsand then run out? If someone is a really naughty player then they'd surely rack up more strikes in that time for the time out to save them.

[Awha]

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.




This is exactly what people will do. This is why game companies as a whole do not advertise or detail how their punishment systems or anticheats work. People inevitably game the system. "Oh hey, my strikes reset, I can now say the most horrible things I want to and harass players again until I get another action.". This is what trolls ARE. They live to cause as much strife as possible.

Sure some will but I highly doubt it would be a common occurrence especially if they remove the warning system and issue a suspension for the action. Sure if they map it out they will eat a 3 day suspension after their one little bout of trolling. Seems silly to base everything off of the actions of a small group of people.

[TurtlesAWD]

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.




This is exactly what people will do. This is why game companies as a whole do not advertise or detail how their punishment systems or anticheats work. People inevitably game the system. "Oh hey, my strikes reset, I can now say the most horrible things I want to and harass players again until I get another action.". This is what trolls ARE. They live to cause as much strife as possible.

so I think this still assumes uniform, non-arbitrary enforcement which I think is generally under doubt, before now but certainly now more than ever, and I think this doesn't account for trolling and being trolled being punished in the same way, which there's every reason to think is the case.


"just stay calm 4head" isn't really a strategy I think represents a lot of contemplation about human interaction or community management

[Oichi]

I also believe that treating the people one is grouped with respect and kindness and adapting one's own expectations is the only way to practice the "live-and-let-live" philosophy.

This. As simple as that.

[Krotoan]

so I think this still assumes uniform, non-arbitrary enforcement which I think is generally under doubt, before now but certainly now more than ever, and I think this doesn't account for trolling and being trolled being punished in the same way, which there's every reason to think is the case.


"just stay calm 4head" isn't really a strategy I think represents a lot of contemplation about human interaction or community management

Considering that only this week we've had some misinformed GM start tagging people willy nilly for what they THOUGHT were infractions? First I've seen of it in my relatively long gameplay.
If you consider "think before you hit enter" to be "just stay calm", I wonder what kind of language you'd use in a social setting around people you don't know. Even then talking is hard to stop sometimes but.. typing? I've got a decent WPM but I ain't cranking out things before running them past my actual brain.

[Canadane]

I think 3 is probably too many.