Discrepancy in lore (spoilers)

[Vyrerus]

When we're ambushed by the miners at Mount Biran Mines, we do KO the (unnamed) one we're assigned to counter-ambush. When the misunderstanding is resolved, Thaffe asks what happened to their compatriot, and you're implied to have answered that he'll probably be fine. Given Jeryk and Thaffe don't bring it up after that, presumably he was indeed fine, if bruised.

In other words, whether we kill, knock out, heavily injure, or just knock about a bit our opponents is entirely dependent on what the plot requires at the given moment.

EDIT: I think a good general guide (with exceptions) is whether the fight is to the death or to submission.

The miners at Mount Biran don't want (or rather, intend) to kill us, but just "arrest" us. In most of the matches where we leave our opponent alive, our opponent also just wants to make us surrender or concede defeat or just go away, or it's basically a sparring match (eg with the Scions during training). If our opponent wants to actually kill us, then we're more likely to kill them.

Of course, the exceptions to exist, although the ones which come to mind at the moment are when we're in favour of mercy. The Temple Knights who attack us at the beginning of the 50-60 DRK questline were fully intending to kill us, but we left them alive. (Sidurgu went behind our backs and killed them, as a "lesson".) And if the enemy is possessed (Surito at the end of the SCH 30-50 questline, Estinien at the end of the 30-50 questline), we also attack to subdue rather than kill.

So it's entirely possible for the WoL to non-lethally subdue their opponents. Again, the difference is plot convenience.

The WoL in the scene speaks, and Thaffe is shocked, "You "think" he'll be alright?!" and he takes a step back with widened eyes. Jeryk then goes to check on the guy. It's actually a tongue in cheek joke, referencing just how murky us hurting other people in quests actually has been. For most of the game, we never get details on people we hurt. We break them, and they are forgotten.

Jeryk brings the man we knocked around up once more, in the scenes after talking to a drunk Magnus, mentioning, "You'll be glad to know I got our friend home alright, and he'll be just fine. He was just a bit shaken up, was all." Immediately moving onto other matters, incredibly nonchalant. Yet, when we beat his friend up, the guy has a speech bubble, "What are you?!" It makes me wonder if the situation is different in other languages.

[Vyrerus]

Huh, I don't remember quoting the edited part. Good on the forums, I guess.

But the 30-50 Estinien questline is a bad example. In the original portion of 2.0, he gets vaporized by the spirit of Haldrath's Dragonfire Dive. I spent all of early Heavensward insisting that I'd killed Estinien, and he shouldn't be around.

It's not that I disagree that it's up to the scriptwriter as to whether the WoL has killed someone or not, but I'm just saying that in general, it's murky and we do usually kill people that we fight. The closer they are to being nameless, the more likely it is that they are dead.

[YianKutku]

Huh, I don't remember quoting the edited part. Good on the forums, I guess.

But the 30-50 Estinien questline is a bad example. In the original portion of 2.0, he gets vaporized by the spirit of Haldrath's Dragonfire Dive. I spent all of early Heavensward insisting that I'd killed Estinien, and he shouldn't be around.

It's not that I disagree that it's up to the scriptwriter as to whether the WoL has killed someone or not, but I'm just saying that in general, it's murky and we do usually kill people that we fight. The closer they are to being nameless, the more likely it is that they are dead.

Ah, yeah, I joined this game sometime in the Heavensward patches, so my impression was from the dialogue after HW was already a thing. Which had Alberic go "Estinien is probably out there, and hopefully not still possessed by Nidhogg", so I assumed Estinien basically just ran away after the finale of the 30-50 questline. If this was a change from the original ARR pre-HW dialogue, then that's probably a retcon.

[Vyrerus]

Ah, yeah, I joined this game sometime in the Heavensward patches, so my impression was from the dialogue after HW was already a thing. Which had Alberic go "Estinien is probably out there, and hopefully not still possessed by Nidhogg", so I assumed Estinien basically just ran away after the finale of the 30-50 questline. If this was a change from the original ARR pre-HW dialogue, then that's probably a retcon.

Yeah, it still has my roll my eyes. Admittedly it's been a long time since 2013, and I don't know nuffin' about the 1.0 variation on DRG quests, but there's technically no body. There is a camera shot of the snow and mountain/wall behind, and maybe a fast jumping Estinien has escaped my notice. Just, I mean, even nowadays he still goes tumbling backwards as the fire of the dive consumes him.

[Alleo]

The only instance that comes to mind, at the moment, is when the WoL was knocked out with a drugged beverage, and that's really not the same thing. Are there other instances in-game where the WoL, or anyone else, has shown the ability to punch someone unconscious without killing them? An instance where they punch to kill, but the punchee manages to live anyway doesn't count (not that I can think of any instances like that, either).

I mean we had a few training dungeons so surely those people were not killed by us. The trial dungeon with Hreasvlgr also comes to my mind. I kinda doubt we just killed the moogles and the dragon children. So yes we are very much able to not kill everything in our way even if the animation stays the same.

Also we are living in a magical world and spells that bind or sleep people exist. Even as a tank you are able to bind someone as Ardbert showed by doing it to us. And the WoL can be a master of all the jobs. I am quite sure that part of the training is also how to keep yourself in check and not just shatter everyone that you fight against. Also how was it so much different from what Papalymo or Lyse did? They did stay behind and seemingly Papalymo casts a spell which made Lyse go into LB. I doubt that this did not hurt but she was allowed to but we did not?

[Vyrerus]

I mean we had a few training dungeons so surely those people were not killed by us. The trial dungeon with Hreasvlgr also comes to my mind. I kinda doubt we just killed the moogles and the dragon children. So yes we are very much able to not kill everything in our way even if the animation stays the same.

Also we are living in a magical world and spells that bind or sleep people exist. Even as a tank you are able to bind someone as Ardbert showed by doing it to us. And the WoL can be a master of all the jobs. I am quite sure that part of the training is also how to keep yourself in check and not just shatter everyone that you fight against. Also how was it so much different from what Papalymo or Lyse did? They did stay behind and seemingly Papalymo casts a spell which made Lyse go into LB. I doubt that this did not hurt but she was allowed to but we did not?

In Sohr Khai we're mostly killing wild animals and magicked automatons. When we fight the Moogles, after we beat them up, they go down to 0.1% HP, and the king moogle Moglin says after, "Jeeze, take it easy. It's not a fight to the death, kupo..." before he slumps down and passes out while disappearing. Basically, we're consistently shown to have restraint, but not being very good at it.

[YianKutku]

In Sohr Khai we're mostly killing wild animals and magicked automatons. When we fight the Moogles, after we beat them up, they go down to 0.1% HP, and the king moogle Moglin says after, "Jeeze, take it easy. It's not a fight to the death, kupo..." before he slumps down and passes out while disappearing. Basically, we're consistently shown to have restraint, but not being very good at it.

Halatali Hard Mode, too. While the first two areas are mammets and animals, the third area has us go up against trained gladiators. We definitely don't kill them (since it's a training exercise). Same for Hullbreaker Isle Hard Mode.

[Vyrerus]

Halatali Hard Mode, too. While the first two areas are mammets and animals, the third area has us go up against trained gladiators. We definitely don't kill them (since it's a training exercise). Same for Hullbreaker Isle Hard Mode.

Let's compile a list of dungeons where we kill people, where we don't kill people, and where we do both.

Dungeons Where We Kill People
Sastasha (Pirates)
Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Cultists)
Copperbell Mines (Hecatoneirs)
Brayflox Longstop (Dragon Aiatar - Indirectly any Goblins left unsaved)
Stone Vigil (Dragons)
The Wanderer's Palace (Tonberries)
Castrum Meridianum (Garleans)
Amdapor Keep (Cultists)
Pharos Sirius (Sailors/Pirates)
Copperbell HM (Hecantoneirs again, this time the Dad, Spriggan)
Haukke Manor HM (Indirectly only, any Wood Wailers not saved)
Brayflox Longstop HM (Goblins from Illuminati)
The Stone Vigil HM (Heretics and Dragons)
Snowcloak ( Heretics)
Sastasha HM (Drowned Twice Pirates + Concubines)
Sunken Temple of Qarn HM (Treasure Hunters after Cactuar boss)
Keeper of the Lake (Garleans)
The Wanderer's Palace HM (Mammol Ja Mercenaries)
Sohm Al (Dragons)
The Aery (Dragons)
The Aetherochemical Research Facility (Garleans, Allagan Clones, Igeyorhm)
Neverreap (Vundu Vanu Vanu)
The Fractal Continuum (Ixalions)
Pharos Sirius HM (Kobolds)
The Antitower (Poroggos, Ziggy)
Xelphatol (Ixali)
The Great Gubal Library HM (Poroggos)
Baelsar's Wall (Garleans, False Flag Ala Mhigans)
Doma Castle (Garleans)
Castrum Abania (Garleans, Experimental Subjects)
Ala Mhigo (Garleans)
The Drowned City of Skalla (Tranmorgified Ala Mhigan aristocrats, they are mercy killings technically)
The Burn (Mist Dragon is still a dragon, and it was once sentient)
Amanesis Anyder (Sahagin)
Matoya's Relict (Son of Ziggy)

Dungeons With Killing and Mercy
Praetorium
The Vault
Shisui of the Violet Tides (We did save the second boss, right?)
Kugane Castle (We don't kill Yojimbo nor the corrupt merchant, do kill samurai/shinobi guards)
Swallow's Compass
The Ghimlyt Dark

Dungeons for Training, Trial, Mercy, or Creatures Only/Undead/Uncertain
Halatali HM
Sor Khai
Hullbreaker HM
Temple of the Fist
Tam Tara Deepcroft HM
Hell's Lid
Fractal Continuum HM (we incidentally avenge all those dead sky pirates littering the floor)
Saint Mocianne's Arboreteum
Saint Mocianne's Arboreteum HM
Holminster Switch
Dohn Mheg
The Qitana Ravel
Malikah's Well
Mt. Gulg
Amaurot
The Twinning
Akademia Anyder
The Grand Cosmos
The Heroes' Gauntlet
Halatali
Thousand Maw of TOtorak
Haukke Manor
Sunken Temple of Qarn
Cutter's Cry
Dzemael Darkhold
Aurum Vale

Mighta left a few off. Also note, in the third category, most creature only dungeons see us kill all the creatures. Anywho, restraint is the exception not the rule.

[Alleo]

In Sohr Khai we're mostly killing wild animals and magicked automatons. When we fight the Moogles, after we beat them up, they go down to 0.1% HP, and the king moogle Moglin says after, "Jeeze, take it easy. It's not a fight to the death, kupo..." before he slumps down and passes out while disappearing. Basically, we're consistently shown to have restraint, but not being very good at it.

There quite a few dragons in there which would be horrible if we kill them after all it was a trial. So yeah I agree we probably kill a lot of stuff but we do also not always do that so we know how to hit without killing.

But seeing the list its also kinda funny how we take out so many monsters and other enemies but when it comes down to certain NPCs we always let them escape a couple of times...there we seemingly suddenly remember to not kill...or we just got hit by another cutscene.

[LineageRazor]

I wouldn't count things like trials and training areas - those are effectively the same as sparring. When your opponent is holding back, it's much easier to hold back, yourself. When being arrested, on the other hand, the guards are presumably going to respond with lethal force if the subject of their arrest resists them. That's where you start to get into the territory of the difficulty of non-lethally taking down a group of people who are legitimately trying to kill you.

Even so, from the examples folks have provided in this thread, it does seem as though the game waffles from time to time as to whether the WoL is capable of Batman-style non-lethal takedowns in serious combat situations. Regardless, in the case of the Ul'dah arrest, I'd say the WoL simply wanted to get to the bottom of the mystery, and the faster way to do so was to play along. It did, indeed, work, and it wasn't as though the WoL had much difficulty escaping later on.