Discrepancy in lore (spoilers)

[Vyrerus]

We do pretty much kill people when we fight. As I remember it the RDM 80 quest has a group of 4 Ala Mhigan bandits split up. Two try to kill the WoL and two try to kill X'ruhn and uhm errr Oh jee I've forgotten her name.

Anyway, the WOL kills the two that attack them. X'ruhn and the midlander girl tied theirs up.

[YianKutku]

We do pretty much kill people when we fight. As I remember it the RDM 80 quest has a group of 4 Ala Mhigan bandits split up. Two try to kill the WoL and two try to kill X'ruhn and uhm errr Oh jee I've forgotten her name.

Anyway, the WOL kills the two that attack them. X'ruhn and the midlander girl tied theirs up.

When we're ambushed by the miners at Mount Biran Mines, we do KO the (unnamed) one we're assigned to counter-ambush. When the misunderstanding is resolved, Thaffe asks what happened to their compatriot, and you're implied to have answered that he'll probably be fine. Given Jeryk and Thaffe don't bring it up after that, presumably he was indeed fine, if bruised.

In other words, whether we kill, knock out, heavily injure, or just knock about a bit our opponents is entirely dependent on what the plot requires at the given moment.

EDIT: I think a good general guide (with exceptions) is whether the fight is to the death or to submission.

The miners at Mount Biran don't want (or rather, intend) to kill us, but just "arrest" us. In most of the matches where we leave our opponent alive, our opponent also just wants to make us surrender or concede defeat or just go away, or it's basically a sparring match (eg with the Scions during training). If our opponent wants to actually kill us, then we're more likely to kill them.

Of course, the exceptions to exist, although the ones which come to mind at the moment are when we're in favour of mercy. The Temple Knights who attack us at the beginning of the 50-60 DRK questline were fully intending to kill us, but we left them alive. (Sidurgu went behind our backs and killed them, as a "lesson".) And if the enemy is possessed (Surito at the end of the SCH 30-50 questline, Estinien at the end of the 30-50 questline), we also attack to subdue rather than kill.

So it's entirely possible for the WoL to non-lethally subdue their opponents. Again, the difference is plot convenience.

[Vyrerus]

When we're ambushed by the miners at Mount Biran Mines, we do KO the (unnamed) one we're assigned to counter-ambush. When the misunderstanding is resolved, Thaffe asks what happened to their compatriot, and you're implied to have answered that he'll probably be fine. Given Jeryk and Thaffe don't bring it up after that, presumably he was indeed fine, if bruised.

In other words, whether we kill, knock out, heavily injure, or just knock about a bit our opponents is entirely dependent on what the plot requires at the given moment.

EDIT: I think a good general guide (with exceptions) is whether the fight is to the death or to submission.

The miners at Mount Biran don't want (or rather, intend) to kill us, but just "arrest" us. In most of the matches where we leave our opponent alive, our opponent also just wants to make us surrender or concede defeat or just go away, or it's basically a sparring match (eg with the Scions during training). If our opponent wants to actually kill us, then we're more likely to kill them.

Of course, the exceptions to exist, although the ones which come to mind at the moment are when we're in favour of mercy. The Temple Knights who attack us at the beginning of the 50-60 DRK questline were fully intending to kill us, but we left them alive. (Sidurgu went behind our backs and killed them, as a "lesson".) And if the enemy is possessed (Surito at the end of the SCH 30-50 questline, Estinien at the end of the 30-50 questline), we also attack to subdue rather than kill.

So it's entirely possible for the WoL to non-lethally subdue their opponents. Again, the difference is plot convenience.

The WoL in the scene speaks, and Thaffe is shocked, "You "think" he'll be alright?!" and he takes a step back with widened eyes. Jeryk then goes to check on the guy. It's actually a tongue in cheek joke, referencing just how murky us hurting other people in quests actually has been. For most of the game, we never get details on people we hurt. We break them, and they are forgotten.

Jeryk brings the man we knocked around up once more, in the scenes after talking to a drunk Magnus, mentioning, "You'll be glad to know I got our friend home alright, and he'll be just fine. He was just a bit shaken up, was all." Immediately moving onto other matters, incredibly nonchalant. Yet, when we beat his friend up, the guy has a speech bubble, "What are you?!" It makes me wonder if the situation is different in other languages.

[Vyrerus]

Huh, I don't remember quoting the edited part. Good on the forums, I guess.

But the 30-50 Estinien questline is a bad example. In the original portion of 2.0, he gets vaporized by the spirit of Haldrath's Dragonfire Dive. I spent all of early Heavensward insisting that I'd killed Estinien, and he shouldn't be around.

It's not that I disagree that it's up to the scriptwriter as to whether the WoL has killed someone or not, but I'm just saying that in general, it's murky and we do usually kill people that we fight. The closer they are to being nameless, the more likely it is that they are dead.

[YianKutku]

Huh, I don't remember quoting the edited part. Good on the forums, I guess.

But the 30-50 Estinien questline is a bad example. In the original portion of 2.0, he gets vaporized by the spirit of Haldrath's Dragonfire Dive. I spent all of early Heavensward insisting that I'd killed Estinien, and he shouldn't be around.

It's not that I disagree that it's up to the scriptwriter as to whether the WoL has killed someone or not, but I'm just saying that in general, it's murky and we do usually kill people that we fight. The closer they are to being nameless, the more likely it is that they are dead.

Ah, yeah, I joined this game sometime in the Heavensward patches, so my impression was from the dialogue after HW was already a thing. Which had Alberic go "Estinien is probably out there, and hopefully not still possessed by Nidhogg", so I assumed Estinien basically just ran away after the finale of the 30-50 questline. If this was a change from the original ARR pre-HW dialogue, then that's probably a retcon.

[Vyrerus]

Ah, yeah, I joined this game sometime in the Heavensward patches, so my impression was from the dialogue after HW was already a thing. Which had Alberic go "Estinien is probably out there, and hopefully not still possessed by Nidhogg", so I assumed Estinien basically just ran away after the finale of the 30-50 questline. If this was a change from the original ARR pre-HW dialogue, then that's probably a retcon.

Yeah, it still has my roll my eyes. Admittedly it's been a long time since 2013, and I don't know nuffin' about the 1.0 variation on DRG quests, but there's technically no body. There is a camera shot of the snow and mountain/wall behind, and maybe a fast jumping Estinien has escaped my notice. Just, I mean, even nowadays he still goes tumbling backwards as the fire of the dive consumes him.

[LineageRazor]

I wouldn't count things like trials and training areas - those are effectively the same as sparring. When your opponent is holding back, it's much easier to hold back, yourself. When being arrested, on the other hand, the guards are presumably going to respond with lethal force if the subject of their arrest resists them. That's where you start to get into the territory of the difficulty of non-lethally taking down a group of people who are legitimately trying to kill you.

Even so, from the examples folks have provided in this thread, it does seem as though the game waffles from time to time as to whether the WoL is capable of Batman-style non-lethal takedowns in serious combat situations. Regardless, in the case of the Ul'dah arrest, I'd say the WoL simply wanted to get to the bottom of the mystery, and the faster way to do so was to play along. It did, indeed, work, and it wasn't as though the WoL had much difficulty escaping later on.

[Alleo]

Even so, from the examples folks have provided in this thread, it does seem as though the game waffles from time to time as to whether the WoL is capable of Batman-style non-lethal takedowns in serious combat situations. Regardless, in the case of the Ul'dah arrest, I'd say the WoL simply wanted to get to the bottom of the mystery, and the faster way to do so was to play along. It did, indeed, work, and it wasn't as though the WoL had much difficulty escaping later on.

It only worked out because the scions did not die. If it was not for Ystholas teleportation skills for example she and Thancred might have died. And we did lose Minfilia. Honestly the WoL was really lucky that everything turned out so good at the end.

[Vyrerus]

It only worked out because the scions did not die. If it was not for Ystholas teleportation skills for example she and Thancred might have died. And we did lose Minfilia. Honestly the WoL was really lucky that everything turned out so good at the end.

I mean, she didn't have to use the spell to bring the ceiling down. That was all scriptwriter's choice for big cliffhanger finale. It was her teleport spell, after all, that took Minfilia. You'd think she'd have the brains to just freeze the water, causing the pursuers to go slow or slip and fall.

[Bhearil]

It worked because the Wol CANT die no matter what so he/she had to escape or the game would have ended there (honestly i would love there were "Bad Ends" in case the player does something really stupid and has to start again that part of story as if it were a precog triggered by the Blessing of Light).

Its like saying a good way to discover how deep is a chasm is to jump in it head first because "its a sure proof way to discover how deep it is". Wol surrendering there after so many hints that they were being framed hard and that obviously they want to silence them ASAP are, to let them capture him/her so that "somehow" doesnt die since the Wol no longer depends on himself/herself to get out of the predicament is downright ridiculous and reeked of plot armor as hell