6.0 Story Speculations

[KageTokage]

I feel it's more likely that 6.1 to 6.5 is going to serve as the x.4-x.5 stretch of the previous expansions.

We can't really start a new adventure proper if we're still being limited to the 6.0 zones, after all.

[catbuncle]

If this was a single player game, I'd want the crystal to summon every ally we've met and fought alongside (still alive) on the Source and on the First to join us in one giant war-ish cutscene. But since this is an MMO and such a thing would be outside their budget (most likely), I'd settle for it summoning the souls of those we've lost on the way to help do the final blow. Moenbryda, Papalymo, Haurchefant, Ysayle, Ardbert's crew, Yotsuyu, etc.

This would be amazing. I am actually hoping that we wind up getting a Positive Final Ending where as part of how we handle Hydaelyn and Zodiark in the end, we get to tap into Amaurotine Creation Magic to enact our will to save everything, and a side effect would be restoring light and life to the Source and undoing the worst scars of war (including undoing some of the corrupted aether like in Thanalan etc) and also reviving some of those deceased friends...

[Enkidoh]

If this was a single player game, I'd want the crystal to summon every ally we've met and fought alongside (still alive) on the Source and on the First to join us in one giant war-ish cutscene. But since this is an MMO and such a thing would be outside their budget (most likely), I'd settle for it summoning the souls of those we've lost on the way to help do the final blow. Moenbryda, Papalymo, Haurchefant, Ysayle, Ardbert's crew, Yotsuyu, etc.

This would be amazing. I am actually hoping that we wind up getting a Positive Final Ending where as part of how we handle Hydaelyn and Zodiark in the end, we get to tap into Amaurotine Creation Magic to enact our will to save everything, and a side effect would be restoring light and life to the Source and undoing the worst scars of war (including undoing some of the corrupted aether like in Thanalan etc) and also reviving some of those deceased friends...

The thing is though, we have already done that very thing once before way back at the climax of the 2.0 ARR story - after the WoL summons the Blade of Light and drives out Lahabrea from his host (Thancred), Lahabrea appears in front of Hydaelyn in her Mothercrystal form, and between them, the WoL... then... the friends and allies they met in the initial story (like the other Archons, even the nation leaders), all materialize beside them and then all rush the Ascian in Super-Sayian style and ultimately obliterate him, sending Lahabrea back to the border of the aetherial sea (and shattering the Crystal of Darkness around Thancred's neck, freeing Thancred from the Ascian's control for good).

I was always puzzled by the significance and mechanincs of that scene but now, it all makes perfect sense, the WoL back then inadervently drew on their 'wanderer' powers and summoned their closest allies to them without even knowing it to help them defeat Lahabrea (and it was probably also boosted by the WoL being right next to Hydaelyn herself at the time). And given EW will be the resolution to that story, it would make even more sense to see this very thing one more time as a call back and fitting coda to ARR's beginning (alas, 1.0 had nothing like that).

[Shyron]

I hope we get to have direct conversations with Zodiark and Hydaelyn and they're both more interesting than just good or evil.

[Anonymoose]

I went back and forth on whether to make this a post or a thread but I'm just going to shove it here. I was thinking today about an old conspiracy theory of mine and I think perhaps it's time to revisit it (in the vein of being wrong for fun and profit). Back in Heavensward, the Word of the Mother's speech and the Moogles possibly remembering the First Umbral Era led to me thinking about that particular event a little too much. One of the things I was stuck on was that the legends seem to be overlapping a little bit.

It is said that the Twelve left Eorzea at the coming of the First Umbral Era, ending the "Age of the Gods" and ushering in the Age of Man.

The way the first lore book phrased the coverage encouraged conflating this event with the end of a "prehistory" but something about it always sat wrong with me once people started connecting it to the pre-sundering world alone. As I pointed out then, tl;dr, the great sundering and first rejoining can't be the same event.

But let's check out that phrasing again...

The First Umbral Era: The Calamity of Wind

Eorzea is characterized by elemental calamities which plunge the realm into short, yet harrowing periods of chaos known as Umbral Eras, followed by extended periods of prosperity known as Astral Eras. What then, you may ask, of the land before the first calamity struck? Drawing from the songs and writings of countless civilizations, theologians believe prehistory to be a tempestuous time of uncontrolled creation overseen by a mercurial god or gods - creation which abruptly ends with the destruction of all that exists, ultimately allowing for the rise of mankind from the wreckage. Historians and scholars of biological fields, on the other hand, claim that mankind could not have simply "appeared" and suggest an evolution of the species in the thousand thousand years preceding the first calamity. What the two groups do, however, agree upon is that modem history begins with the First Umbral Era.

It's easy to see how one might miss the forest for the trees there. However, after Shadowbringers we can (probably) safely say that the "tempestuous time of uncontrolled creation overseen by a mercurial god or gods" is actually the Ancient Era, where Amaurot thrived before the great sundering. I think the "competing theory" is actually also true, to a degree, but reflects an unnaturally created world findings its own natural equilibrium for about 2,000 years after the sundering.

My theory at the time was that there was a hitherto unrecognized era that was post-sundering and pre-calamity, and that's where the Twelve thrived. That perhaps Hydaelyn made guardians for Her children, and somehow the Ascians were able to exploit these beings in such a way that it led to the First Umbral Era, so She sent them away somehow.

I think I'd like to return to that with a new speculation about where 6.0 might be headed by combining this old theory with one of my more recent ones: Venat's coalition of Hydaelyn summoners are the Twelve. (How this fits with Azeyma/Azim is an immedate "wtf" here, I admit, but let's set it aside.)

After Hydaelyn's victory over Zodiark and the great sundering, the planet entered a new age with the victorious - and now tempered - "Counter Convocation" remanifested in some form at the helm of Hydaelyn's new world. As with the Convocation and Zodiark, this coalition perhaps even now existed only to spread Her Light. As Elidibus, Emet-Selch, and Lahabrea restored their sundered brethren to their offices and became the Ascians, they struggled against Hydaelyn's champions, and this led to the First Umbral Era.

Hydaelyn, realizing the vulnerability, sundered her own champions to save them and let them be reborn into countless lives detached from the tempered identities they would have if their immortal memories were restored. And so the Twelve were no longer with us.

But the Ascians would come again, and again, and again. We know that Hydaelyn would essentially mass-market the Echo and take any who answered the call, but I believe - just as there are rare occasions where she chooses to entrust a single champion with extraordinary power - there were also occasions where she re-unites her ancient allies as whoever they are today, and this is why history remembers them in such eras as the Third Astral or the Zodiac Braves as a group of twelve, the Twelve reborn.

It's a pretty tall house of cards, but hey, it's fun to think about.

[Rosenstrauch]

It's a pretty tall house of cards, but hey, it's fun to think about.

This is generally how I think "prehistory" unfolded as well, though I'd like two throw in my own two cents on the subject.

One possible reason for the discrepancy between The Twelve being Hydaelyn's twelve summoners and the "Azem = Azeyma" thing is that there are, potentially, thirteen Gods amongst The Twelve. Two of them are typically treated as one: Nald and Thal, or "Nald'thal". Another possibility is that Azem did not, in fact, become Azeyma. Rather, the title and responsibilities of Azem were used as inspiration for one of Hydaelyn's summoners, and that summoner became Azeyma instead.

I could see the story going either way. And I wouldn't be surprised if, were the second possibility I suggested true, the other members of The Twelve similarly pulled from the identities and roles of the other Convocation members for inspiration. There's still a number discrepancy to be had (does Venat/Hydaelyn supplant Elibidus/Zodiark? Which two Ascian Overlords get rolled together to become Nald'thal?), but I think that would make sense.

[Kesey]

snip.

To add evidence to this theory, at the end of the Anamnesis Anyder, there are 12 ancients with Venat. I too believe they are the ancients that later become known as "The Twelve". Also, Rosenstrauch's point about Nald and Thal being two twins counted as one person does allow a space for Azem to be counted among their number.

As I recently pointed out in another thread, the cave paintings in Rak'tika Greatwood imply there is more to the story between Hydaelyn and Zodiark as well. Qitana Ravel's reveal showed us panels of summoning Zodiark, followed by summoning Hydaelyn, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark together, then Hydaelyn and Zodiark fighting. The panel we see the two of them together is the most significant because it implies there was an event that comes after the summoning but before Hydaelyn has to sunder Zodiark.

I'll even take it a step further and say that event most likely involves Azem. And as evidence of this the first thing the WOL does at the beginning of 5.4 while everyone is catching up is remember that specific panel where Hydaelyn and Zodiark are together--not the one where they are fighting. And since 5.4 is the start of the prelude to 6.0 this has to be significant.

Furthermore, the cave paintings that come from the caves near Slighterbough run by the Children of Everlasting Dark also show three panels, one of which supports your theory. The latter two panels we know of because one notes the rise of the Ronkan Empire and the other Ardbert and company saving the First. The first panel shows a group gathered together, the person in the foremost position seems to be holding a staff (can't help but draw the comparison between that drawn staff and Louisiox's staff Tupsimati) and white cloud billowing forth. We can say that those in the picture are maybe "The Twelve" doing whatever thing we're missing from the timeline they accomplished.

[Anonymoose]

The panel we see the two of them together is the most significant because it implies there was an event that comes after the summoning but before Hydaelyn has to sunder Zodiark.

I think what we've been told so far glosses over how long it took for Hydaelyn to actually reach and shackle Zodiark. I don't think we know the full extent of Amaurot's civil war.

the foremost position seems to be holding a staff (can't help but draw the comparison between that drawn staff and Louisiox's staff Tupsimati) and white cloud billowing forth. We can say that those in the picture are maybe "The Twelve" doing whatever thing we're missing from the timeline they accomplished

This part slaps my tinfoil hat right on. In the 1.0 Lominsa story, we saw a horn-and-tablet combo called "The Key". In combination they were used to summon a great deal of aether, causing the Ascians to try to get them into the hands of the beast tribes for the 1562 primal summoning push. We saw Travanchet give one such horn to the Sahagin (and later re-gift it for Alexander). We saw Corguevais make off with the one that was later used to summon Ifrit. And we were told Tupsimati was actually one, as well.

Here's my question: Was Louisoix's staff an accurate representation of what all the Keys looked like, or did he install the horn/tablet on a conventional weapon? If his staff is the accurate version, we may have twelve Keys, each representing one of the Twelve.

...EXCEPT... Notice that the Ixal have staffs just like Tupsimati with the wind gods on them (stolen from the Eorzean Alliance, allegedly). So maybe the version we saw in the Lominsa story was more accurate. Maybe it's the decorative horn instrument and tablet.

...EXCEPT... That tablet was found on Seal Rock (Allagan testing ground for anti-primal weapons) written in Rhotano Bloodcant, a dialect of the Sahagin language.

...How many Keys are there really? What are the tablets supposed to look like? In all likelihood the ORIGINAL answer was probably bound up with the Presence of Silvertear Lake sealed beneath Mor Dhona. So that's lost to time. (For now?)

But this could be one opportunity to clear up what they Keys are since they were linked so closely with the primals. Imagine if they were used in the ritual to summon Hydaelyn. Why horns? Who knows. Though a musical instrument would be neat since our mysterious benefactor, later Hydaelyn, was originally an unseen songstress.

[Veloran]

My theory at the time was that there was a hitherto unrecognized era that was post-sundering and pre-calamity, and that's where the Twelve thrived.

Most likely the time post-sundering pre-calamity is just conflated with memories of the Ancient era. I don't think the Twelve in any incarnation we would recognize them ever existed, it's just a 12,000 year old game of telephone mixing up the Convocation, Hydaelyn's summoners, and impactful historical figures like Warriors of Light.

As I recently pointed out in another thread, the cave paintings in Rak'tika Greatwood imply there is more to the story between Hydaelyn and Zodiark as well. Qitana Ravel's reveal showed us panels of summoning Zodiark, followed by summoning Hydaelyn, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark together, then Hydaelyn and Zodiark fighting. The panel we see the two of them together is the most significant because it implies there was an event that comes after the summoning but before Hydaelyn has to sunder Zodiark.

The structure of the cave actually implies that there may have once been a fifth mural where the exit to Rak'tika Falls currently exists, and thousands of years of erosion created a passage in that location which washed the image away.



I'd also like to say that examining those murals more closely, I'm about 200% sure Zodiark and Hydaelyn are in fact the same being. Note Zodiark's doubled halos before Hydaelyn appears, and then Hydaelyn's doubled halos when Zodiark is defeated. In the interim panel which shows them contesting each other and roughly equal, they're each smaller and lesser, and only have one, while the cast down Zodiark has none. This would match Hydaelyn's story of how she "excised" Zodiark from herself, fit Lahabrea's description of Hydaelyn as a parasite, and explain how the hell Venat's group were able to summon a being that was equal to a god that it took the sacrifice of half the Ancient's population to create.

[RyuDragnier]

On a note dealing with Fandaniel, I had a random thought which may explain what's going on with him. It deals with the Ascians we've defeated so far and our fights against them. Each one of them has fit the Scion of Darkness motif in either their actions or their fights, with as of right now, Fandaniel being the outlier (mostly due to screen time).

Lahabrea's Scion of Darkness title is "the Corrupt". From his actions of teaching and encouraging the beast tribes to summon their gods, he is indeed a Corrupter.
Nabriales is "the Impure", and the fight against him involved not only moves that looked wholey unnatural with tendrils of darkness, but he also had a "reverse" realm where the colors were inversed, coming across as completely unnatural. He indeed fits Impure.
Igeyorhm is "the Whisperer", and was the main cause of the 13th being overcome by too much darkness from teaching its warriors dark arts, whispering to them its secrets. In a sense, she fits "the Whisperer"
Emet-Selch is "the Death Seraph", and has not only helped destroy numerous shards, but turns into the literal embodiment of death in his final battle. He definitely fits the title.
Elidibus is the "Keeper of Precepts". Precepts are general rules meant to regulate behavior or thought. He kept all the other Ascians in line with his rules in order to prevent another incident like with the 13th, so he too fits the title.

Now we come to Fandaniel, whose Scion of Darkness title would be "Bringer of Order". Notice instantly the problem? He's not bringing order at all, but sheer chaos, and takes delight in it. This would be the opposite of what his Scion of Darkness title is. If I were to make a wager on what's going on, he is likely corrupted by that which caused The Sound. This would explain why he had to be kept in line so much by Elidibus, and why he's perfectly willing to destroy the world by recreating The Final Days, something that would be the complete opposite of what the Ascians want. It's very likely his death or his plot will result in the return of The Sound's creator.

It was mentioned earlier that there may be FFX vibes in this expansion. If so, then expect The Sound's creator to be a Yu Yevon expy, something that possesses others and corrupts them into doing what it desires, which is apparently full on destruction of everything.