Fandaniel and the Depths of Ascian Tempering

[Anonymoose]

Still using bits and pieces of the conversation as pointers to re-examine clues here and there, but with regard to the Eden stuff...

The first thing Mitron says:

Mitron
I am Mitron, servant of Zodiark.

and during the battle

Oracle of Darkness
In Lord Zodiark's name!

How do we hand-wave those?

Though, ironically, if the goal is to slow time to spend eternity together, didn't Nabriales say that was within Zodiark's power? lol

Nabriales
By Zodiark's name I command thee!
River of time, mire mine enemy in thy sluggish flow!

[Vyrerus]

Still using bits and pieces of the conversation as pointers to re-examine clues here and there, but with regard to the Eden stuff...

The first thing Mitron says:

and during the battle

How do we hand-wave those?

Though, ironically, if the goal is to slow time to spend eternity together, didn't Nabriales say that was within Zodiark's power? lol

:3c My theory for Zodiark Trance making headway yeehaw!

Also though, no need to handwave them, Mitron and Loghrif while sundered are still original Convocation souls, thus stained by Zodiark, and then loyal to him once the memory's are rekindled.

[Vyrerus]

Still using bits and pieces of the conversation as pointers to re-examine clues here and there, but with regard to the Eden stuff...

The first thing Mitron says:

and during the battle

How do we hand-wave those?

Though, ironically, if the goal is to slow time to spend eternity together, didn't Nabriales say that was within Zodiark's power? lol

Also, put another way, we have some examples in game of not tempered beings still referring to primals as Lord this or that. I don't remember the precise quote, but I was pretty sure the Amal'jaa in the Brotherhood of Ash still refer to Ifrit as Lord Ifrit. Don't they?

[RobinMalvin]

Oracle of Darkness
In Lord Zodiark's name!

Out of topic, where'd you get this quote? I've spent months fighting her and not once I heard her using that line, even checked some youtube videos to make sure.

...This line is from savage mode right?

[Anonymoose]

Is it their true memories restored? Or is it memories of unsundered injected into them? And why is their true self a tempered one and not the one before tempering?

All we had to go by was 5.3 and the short story, implying they were second-hand memories alone, until Eden said,

Loghrif
In my defense, my memories have only recently been restored. My mind is still a little hazy.
Mitron
Hardly surprising. No matter how many times we are reborn, it is disorienting to have everything change around you.

How to interpret this alongside Fandaniel having "no firsthand memories" of the Final Days (but still having inherited the Ascian power of the Fandaniel) I'm not entirely sure. Either the stones awaken enough memories to restore that "version" of you without the complete library of lived experiences or Gaia is speaking a little too broadly. It could be either, I think. If you removed half of my important lived experiences, I wouldn't be the same person, either. And if I was then treated as disposable/incomplete I'd probably be pretty spiteful myself, lol.

It's also possible the Echo is involved somehow.

Aren't Asicans "dead" by virtue of their very nature?

Perhaps it is a question of physical death versus spiritual death, and that we only see tempering fade before a true spiritual dissolution. And now that you mention it, I wonder if there's anyone who is simultaneously in the "The sundered aren't tempered." and "Hydaelyn tempers you." buckets... If Zenos is after Zodiark, pretty sure my dude still has the Echo, right?

Out of topic, where'd you get this quote? I've spent months fighting her and not once I heard her using that line, even checked some youtube videos to make sure.

...This line is from savage mode right?

To be honest I'm not sure, it was from a list of her battle quotes. It was sandwiched between "I shall fulfill my duty as the Oracle of Darkness!" and "Memories...fading one by one..." so it was attributed to her with the rest of the block. It is possible it didn't end up being used or was thrown in late from somewhere else. Adjoining "In Lord Zodiark's Name" above and below should be, "Return to oblivion!" and "Shadows fall!"

Think this one was mis-attributed?

[RobinMalvin]

Think this one was mis-attributed?

Considering all her lines are voiced in the fight, I'll say this is definitely one such the case. She is basically Ultimecia's homage so having her invoking Zodiark would make it out of place. The closest she's got to mentioning Zodiark is the line "By the will of the ancients".

There is the off chance other languages might use different line but I can't be sure of that.

[Anonymoose]

There is the off chance other languages might use different line but I can't be sure of that.

Did some more research at your urging. Usually they all have equivalents of each other by language so "By the will of the Ancients" (even if it didn't say that in JP) would have something else in the same call slot, so "In Lord Zodiark's name!" would have its own. The other language equivalents would have been...

Im Namen von Zodiark!
Au nom du grand Zordiarche!
戒律王の名において……！
In the name of the King of Precepts!

Going through fight footage instead of lore quote lists, I can see... (so far)

Confirmed

• Mitron!? ...Aaaaaah!
• Yes... I remember. I am Gaia. Mine was the seat of Loghrif...
• I shall restore the power of Darkness to this star.
• I shall fulfill my duty as the Oracle of Darkness!
• By the will of the ancients!
• Whispers of ruination... Smite my foe!"
• Past...present...future. Infinite possibilities...condensed into a single moment!
• The abyss awaits!
• Succumb to the Darkness!
• Pain shall be fleeting, joy everlasting... As I wish it, so shall the river of time flow!
• The void beckons!
• Shadows fall!
• Your presence only deepens my solitude! I will erase you and know unending bliss!
• Chaos reigns eternal!
• Return to oblivion!
• My memories will never be taken from me again... Disappear!
• Memories...fading one by one...
• Even if my memory should fade...I will live on!

Unseen

• Whispers of awakening...
• Whispers of resonance...
• In Lord Zodiark's name!

Interestingly, these three were appended to the end of the list, so maybe the list-maker couldn't find them, either. It's possible that the mechanic either wasn't used, was cut from the fight, or is from an attack that's easy to prevent. I mean, the rest of the lines are still pretty "F Yeah Spread the Darkness" but that's no "In Zodiark's Name" on the weighted scale, lol.

And clues from other languages of fight text would be...

J'apporte les Ténèbres absolues sur cette terre!
I will bring absolute Darkness to this land!

Mes mots sont la parole divine...
My words are the words of the divine...

Das Chaos regiert auf ewig!
Chaos will reign forever!

The Japanese version of many of these lines is especially "Zodiarky" (in my humble opinion.)
The "rule stuff in/our first" mindset sucks sometimes, lol.

闇の巫女が紡ぐは神の詞（ことば）……忌まわしき光の使徒を、祓ってくれようぞ……！
The Shrine Maiden (Oracle) of Darkness spins the words of the Divine ... Excise the bearer of the abominable Light!

古の魔力よ！ 創造の泉より湧きて、世界に希望をもたらせ！
Ancient magickal power! From the fount of creation, restore hope to this world!

昏き深淵よ！ いやはてより来たりて、終末を切り裂け！
Twilit Abyss! Come now and rip through the End!

混沌の闇よ！ 天より降りて、光を圧し潰せ！
Darkness of chaos! Descend and annihilate the Light!

死の言霊よ…… 刹那を刻み、終末の到来を遅延させる……！
Spirit (in the words) of Death... carve out this moment and delay the End!

覚醒の言霊よ…… 理想郷では、魂は死せず不滅となる……。
Spirit (in the words) of Awakening... Our utopia, where the soul never dies and immortality is achieved!

虚ろなる大地よ！ 次元を超えて光を喰らい、無へと回帰せよ！
This world is nothing! Consume the Light beyond the dimensions and return all to nothingness!

Tangentially-related spitballing here, but if returning all to nothingness and removing time from the equation, all becoming one in the sea of chaos, counts as immortality ... there might be some overlap with old-school (and admittedly perhaps retconned) takes on Zodiark's ultimate nature.

[Vyrerus]

[*]My memories will never be taken from me again... Disappear!

This kind of makes me wonder if when Ancients died in the Ancients' world, did they keep their memories when they were reborn? That was a theme of memory with the Galka race in FFXI, one of them would keep all of the race's entire memory each time he died. They would experience rebirth, and most would keep some memories of their past life, iirc.

Which makes me wonder, was it possibly Hydaelyn's fault that people lose their memory upon death?

[Veloran]

How to interpret this alongside Fandaniel having "no firsthand memories" of the Final Days (but still having inherited the Ascian power of the Fandaniel) I'm not entirely sure.

Maybe Fandaniel was already dead before the climax of the Final Days in Amaurot, so he never experienced it. Alternatively he may not consider that version of himself the current "him". His stone may also be flawed in some way, as it was the only one of all the crystals to contain an incomplete, fragmented memory. It's possible the Unsundered simply didn't have enough memories of Fandaniel to trigger his own memories to return, so he's been stuck with broken half-memories and just serving as an Ascian without a strong reason to do so.

[Mieck]

And now that you mention it, I wonder if there's anyone who is simultaneously in the "The sundered aren't tempered." and "Hydaelyn tempers you." buckets... If Zenos is after Zodiark, pretty sure my dude still has the Echo, right?

There's something else he (still?) has. Hein complained how unfair it was for a Garlean to be using magic during their duel in 4.5, and that could just be read as "well, you're actually squaring off against Elidibus, sunbeam," but upon taking ownership of his body again, Zenos used a few magic or magic-like abilities during the brief skirmish with Gaius and Estinien in 5.1. He even warps away using the Ascian black/purple disapparation effect. So, is that something residual as a result of Ascian possession? Or something rather more to do with whatever Emet-Selch may or may not have had to do with Zenos in the past (as hinted at by Fandaniel)? Or is it a result of his artifically unlocked Echo?


Edit: this is going dreadfully off topic.