Fandaniel and the Depths of Ascian Tempering

[Anonymoose]

This is already rapid-fire in every direction! Ahhh! I'm not sure if I'm going to get juggle the replies-to-the-replies in this post. (Though, as always, I'm just trying to parry points into other points to cover all our bases more than argue for the "right" way to interpret something that hasn't even happened, yet.)

So is one theory that the writers are discarding all of this off as indentured lip-service?

Fourteen Ascians
To the one true god! To Zodiark!

Nabriales
I shall rise above them all and take my place at Lord Zodiark's right hand!

Nabriales
I shall not toy with you as does Lahabrea! Witness the terrible might of a true servant of Zodiark!

Igeyorhm
Plainly, you desire a foe to despise. And 'tis well that you do, for it is from the vortex of ceaseless conflict that Lord Zodiark shall be reborn.

Igeyorhm
For the glory of Lord Zodiark.

First and pretty obviously, the Echo. It seemingly (Hydaelyn theories notwithstanding) allows all those who have it to effectively be immune to tempering, we even see Echo-users capable of outright shielding others from the aether of Primals. So, if all the Ancients had the Echo, how were they tempered?

If I were to go by precedent alone? I'd say the Zenos and Emet-Selch lines did account for this potentially: The [Will of the Star] has far greater psychic influence than even the Ancients were capable of resisting. Even if Zodiark was "airtight" as a successful Creation and did not leak influence, and did not spread influence on purpose, the summoners could not resist it once they "came into symbiosis with His energy" to make it happen.

Zenos
I speak of the Echo, of course. Does it merely render you immune to eikonic influence? Or is it rather that your influence is far greater than theirs?

Emet-Selch
He tempered us. It was only natural. There is no resisting such power.

Emet actively worked against Zodiark in leaving the Azem stone to WoL and then even saving WoL in the battle with Elidibus.

Devil's Advocate: How does anything Emet-Selch did when he was alive knowingly go against Zodiark? How would creating a stone in secret for his best friend, hoping they'd eventually find themselves on the same side or be reunited in the world restored, go against Zodiark? It violate Convocation norms, but Zodiark Himself? Which ties into...

Death = Untemper

We've always seen that in the moment before your soul is scattered, you seem to become yourself again. We even see it with Emet-Selch and Eldibus. But what if you never intend to return to the Lifestream? What if you dodge it? Or what if the scattered soul is reassembled or restored?

I took the scenes in Eden (and the entirety of G'raha's plan and the cure for tempering itself) to be saying that memory and soul are so deeply entwined that the only way to cure tempering is to boost the subjugated "self" back over the primal's "self"-influence. What if the memory is restored, and thus the self, but the self has never and could never be stronger than Zodiark, which is how they were tempered in the first place?

Am I wrong to it as an example of:
Mortal Gaia with No Memories of Ancient Gaia = Mortal Gaia the Active Persona = Untempered
Mortal Gaia with Memories of Ancient Gaia = Ancient Gaia the Active Persona = Possibly Tempered

The Final Days was literally what Zodiark was summoned to stop, if he was tempered why would he go about trying to restart it?

Think about this backwards instead of forwards - instead of assuming he can't be tempered, assume that he must - just for the fun of the consideration. Why a loyal servant of Zodiark who worked for His resurrection and dominance re-create the very conditions that arose to Him being summoned the first time? Why would a loyal servant of Zodiark who worked for His resurrection and dominance re-create the very conditions that gave Him purpose and strength, and made all yearn for the salvation of the world - his very raison d'etre? Why wouldn't he?

[Kesey]

Think about this backwards instead of forwards - instead of assuming he can't be tempered, assume that he must - just for the fun of the consideration. Why a loyal servant of Zodiark who worked for His resurrection and dominance re-create the very conditions that arose to Him being summoned the first time? Why would a loyal servant of Zodiark who worked for His resurrection and dominance re-create the very conditions that gave Him purpose and strength, and made all yearn for the salvation of the world - his very raison d'etre? Why wouldn't he?

I believe this is the way to approach Fandaniel until we have more information. Recreating the final days to make more Zodiark worshipers, so Fandaniel can go from city-state to city-state recruiting followers who just want an form of salvation from the end of the world. Furthermore, he can say your leaders/nations, the scions, the 12, and WOL can't save you, but Zodiark the one true god can.

[Erendis]

What if the memory is restored, and thus the self, but the self has never and could never be stronger than Zodiark, which is how they were tempered in the first place?

Is it their true memories restored? Or is it memories of unsundered injected into them? And why is their true self a tempered one and not the one before tempering?

[Kesey]

Is it their true memories restored? Or is it memories of unsundered injected into them? And why is their true self a tempered one and not the one before tempering?

Well many have speculated that using the Ascian job stone will trigger the echo to see your past life, but the WOL didn't do this in 5.4 with their stone. I guess this might just be something that hasn't happened yet. This kind of event would answer if the true memories are restored or if they were just unsundered projections of memories.

[Mieck]

Death = Untemper

Aren't Asicans "dead" by virtue of their very nature?

Thancred - "Crystals? You mean... like the Ascians?"
Urianger - "Just so. As the Ascians flee unto the rift 'twixt planes with Crystals of Darkness, so did these warriors come hither with Crystals of Light."
Warrior of Darkness - "Eloquent as always. Aye, like the Ascians, we too are beyond death! You cannot defeat that which is eternal."
Alphinaud - "Wait! Such methods as the Ascians employ require the renunciation of the flesh. You... you would have had to..."
Warrior of Darkness - "At long last, you see. To save our world, we gave our lives."

If death untempers them, then there is either a mechanism to re-temper (perhaps that Aetherial Rift amphitheatre with the Zodiark statue at its core?) or there is a kupo-ton of hot air that we've heard from all the Sundered. As you've already pointed out, that would be a lot for the writers to handwave away.