Gil stolen through market board

[TurtlesAWD]

An autoclicker used to run a game in the background while you go about your life, would fall under this, as while it does not modify the game, it modifies the gameplay.

A mouse with the capability to read a held click as rapid clicking and a roll of scotch tape can do the same.

An accessibility software utilized by a person(s) with a disability would NOT fall under said category as it does not, nor is it designed to modify the game NOR is it designed to modify the gameplay. It is instead designed to assist a user in accomplishing TYPICAL gameplay which they otherwise would be wholly restricted from doing so.

Powerful enough software to do that would be capable of being turned towards gameplay automation just as the right kind of physical apparatus can. I don't see a relevant difference between customizable enough software and hardware.

TYPICAL gameplay does not include setting it to run in the background.

Sure, that's not what I'm arguing.

Your unwillingness to acknowledge the differences between the two, and your readiness to conflate the two to support your narrative, indicates an argument of bad faith.

What I'm saying are the same are the different methods of gameplay automation - I don't think special consideration should be given to software based methods of system circumvention if hardware methods have the same impact. I think players who use either could use both kinds of tools to engage with the game appropriately, and some subset of users opting to use those tools in an unintended way shouldn't spoil it for anyone who needs them.

Additionally, you've built up this strawman of a disabled person using an autoclicker for... what reason?

Inability to interact with a mouse via the standard method. Like I said pages ago, I used to watch a guy with no arms stream counterstrike and in addition to specialized hardware he had additional software as an intermediary between his inputs and the game client. Apparently at one point he got a VAC ban, that VAC ban was later overturned - probably because a rule against that kind of software is best not applied to that scenario. That some subset of users would use that kind of software to cheat the system isn't grounds to exclude that software universally. It's been years so I can't say I remember the specifics of his setup, but this isn't something I just made up, it's based on observations of how other people have played games.

If I bought a breath-based device from quadstick and used it essentially as a hardware based autoclicker in my sleep - assuming I breathe in my sleep, which I generally believe will occur, at least for a while yet - would you then advocate for that input device to be disallowed, regardless of who else it impacts that may have been using it to actually play the game?

[MilkieTea]

Snip.

Disabled People Do Not Exist For, Nor Are, Arguments To Be Made.

[TurtlesAWD]

Disabled People Do Not Exist For, Nor Are, Arguments To Be Made.

I really don't know what you mean by this, I'm not sure what you believe my argument is that this is being relied on as an excuse.

This is literally a "this is why we can't have nice things" situation. If enough people abuse something it's going to get removed, which is sad because sometimes that thing brought aid and/or joy to others without abusing it.

Yeah that's generally my point is I don't think it should, rather, design that prevents one-input methods, or incentives to use one-input methods for hours on end would ideally be changed instead.

[Penthea]

Yeah that's genereally my point is I don't think it should, rather, design that prevents one-input methods, or incentives to use one-input methods for hours on end would ideally be changed instead.

The fact is disabled people are a minority and not all disabled people face the same challenges. I mentioned before I have mobility issues in my hands so it does affect my experience in the game, but someone else with a totally different disability may experience difficulty with stairs but none when playing games. So disabled people are a minority and those whose disability directly affects their ability to game is an even smaller minority than that.

Devs try to target the majority because that's how you ensure your product is a good experience for as many people as possible. If something only a tiny fraction of players would use for accessibility could be easily abused by able bodied people...then I can see why that something would get banned if it gets widely abused. Even though I'm disabled I understand that the health of the overall game matters more than the experience of an exceptionally tiny group.

But honestly all this does is highlight how exceptionally flawed the housing system is. It's so difficult to get a house that it's common for players to cheat because the process of getting one is lengthy, laborious, demoralising and frustrating...and your chances of success are extremely low. Even when you use an autoclicker your chances are low, they are merely increased. Especially if you're not the only autoclicker around.

This debate shouldn't be about what is or isn't accessibility or anything like that. It should be "why do SE continue to allow a system that heavily encourages cheating to exist?".

[Arillyn]

I don't know why you guys are still arguing with this person. Reading all the posts (I've had popcorn while doing it!), it's pretty clear they are arguing in bad faith, are doing mental gymnastics to justify cheating, they are a troll or they just like arguing for the sake of arguing (which I guess could be a form of being a troll?).

[ItMe]

I don't know why you guys are still arguing with this person. Reading all the posts (I've had popcorn while doing it!), it's pretty clear they are arguing in bad faith, are doing mental gymnastics to justify cheating, they are a troll or they just like arguing for the sake of arguing (which I guess could be a form of being a troll?).

I mean, I'm fairly confident we're just feeding trolls, but this is hilarious. This thread gained, like, 4 pages so far today.

[Vahlnir]

Disabled People Do Not Exist For, Nor Are, Arguments To Be Made.

[Penthea]

If I bought a breath-based device from quadstick and used it essentially as a hardware based autoclicker in my sleep - assuming I breathe in my sleep, which I generally believe will occur, at least for a while yet - would you then advocate for that input device to be disallowed, regardless of who else it impacts that may have been using it to actually play the game?

This is literally a "this is why we can't have nice things" situation. If enough people abuse something it's going to get removed, which is sad because sometimes that thing brought aid and/or joy to others without abusing it.