Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?

[Alaray]

I (we) were referring to the 48-man SAVAGE, not regular DR. The content is effectively DOA, for that matter. Seems like wasted resources to me.

Fact is, we don't really know the extent of it. Personally I feel the decision to push Ultimate to 5.55 was the risky decision that predominantly lead to the delay -- it's already risky to push it so late within an expansion cycle, as if something unforeseen were to happen (be it a massive design bug/flaw they need to fix/or being put on battle design teams for the last Savage tier/Bozja battle content/and 6.0 content that'd stretch the team thin like in StB > ShB; or a lead design getting sick etc...would all automatically delay the Ultimate to sometime in 6.0 since "on time" was 5.55). If a lead designer on the project became incapacitated in some way, be it family emergency/fell ill etc... that would just stall the project until that designer was back in commission.

Putting 100% of the blame for the content on Bozja Savage lacks the potential nuance and ignores previous criticism when they announced this Ultimate was aimed as late as 5.55 and not 5.3. There's still a likelihood that, say, they cut development of DR Savage but still couldn't meet the 5.55 deadline for the Ultimate due to unforeseen delays in the development that (we) aren't aware of and likely won't be aware of.

Be upset, be disappointed -- I know I was disappointed to hear the news, but this whole "cut DR savage to save Ultimate" bit isn't necessarily even accurate, and misses all the other nuances and challenges that come with Ultimate fight design and just the battle design team's hurdles with their timeline.

Personally I'd rather have both, but with the way the world is intermixed with things already having been delayed prior, I was expecting something to be delayed heavily -- Ultimate coming so late meant it couldn't be pushed back to a later ShB patch (ie.: say it was slated for 5.3 and then delayed until 5.5, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place).

Not to say DR Savage isn't without flaws (it *should* scale like BA did in order to generate content longevity, Castrum should give much better rewards so it's ran more often in the first place so people can unlock the content etc...) but it's not... bad content. It's a lot of fun, to be honest, and I really enjoy these more experimental raids that let you play around more with various in game actions/abilities that lend into replay-ability.

Honestly I wish we could have had both, but with the state of things, it became impossible and something had to give. Just the reality of it.

At least, Sage + Melee DPS in 6.0 should receive Ultimate Weapons, so there's that tiny silver lining.

[linayar]

The "reward" sucks, and is too tedious to get. 48 people for savage is kind of reaching for SE. The amount of work required to get that garbage tier armor is simply not worth it. Not even the people who actually want dyable variants are even going to be able to get dyable variants. They'll be lucky if they get ONE. People aren't doing the content. Considering they also have to obtain a full set of the regular bozja armor and nobody runs Castrum either. It's questionable design, and in my opinion, a complete waste of resources.

That's irrelevant. It's optional content and people have done it. If you don't want to do the work, then don't. I didn't do it either, just like I don't do many other optional things in this game, like Ultimate.

[technole]

The communication from the developers was just awful, and clearly intended to keep people subbed and not done in good faith. It's been a pretty disappointing expansion in my opinion, even considering the situation they've been under. I wouldn't recommend this game anymore to others.

Those people who want to see the game continue to be successful need to stop sucking up to the development team and allow criticisims to get through. Cracking down on dissent is doing the game a terrible disservice.

Yeah, that's the biggest beef. They knew they were obviously far far behind to announce Ultimate was only 70% done last week.

Meanwhile they let people keep going on with savage, getting ready with best-in-slot gear needed to challenge it, and getting groups formed for Ultimate beyond the 8 weeks for BiS. i530 gear is now practically worthless.

Surprise, oh you already added 3+ more months to your sub? Too bad.

The balloon pop you heard was hundreds of raid groups disbanding.

[SturmChurro]

...

Oh, I don't actually do Ultimate, nor do I do savage, but this savage most definitely has no place in Bozja. Supposedly the Ultimate was actually about, 70% done (?), if I remember correctly. Whether the resources wasted on this dead content could have prevented ultimate from being delayed as far as it has been, is of no issue to me. I'm more concerned with, what I think, are continuous poor design decisions in regards to Bozja, Not just the content itself, but the entire reward structure, punishments, etc. Don't even get me started on the relics.

That's irrelevant. It's optional content and people have done it. If you don't want to do the work, then don't. I didn't do it either, just like I don't do many other optional things in this game, like Ultimate.

It's irrelevent? Exactly HOW?! This content is not meant to be a one and done raid. This is meant to be grinded. It wants a large amount of players, so even players who actually WANT to do the content won't even be able to do it. Which means those players aren't getting those rewards they want. This is Castrum all over again. For that matter, many people can't even do DR, because they cannot get a Castrum clear, further exacerbating the issue! By the time, SE decides to "fix" castrum rewards, and some people start getting clears, they are going to find this content completely dead. Nobody is going to want to prog with them, when they can lose hundreds of thousands of mettle in the process!

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yeah, that's the biggest beef. They knew they were obviously far far behind to announce Ultimate was only 70% done last week.

Meanwhile they let people keep going on with savage, getting ready with best-in-slot gear needed to challenge it, and getting groups formed for Ultimate beyond the 8 weeks for BiS. i530 gear is now practically worthless.

Surprise, oh you already added 3+ more months to your sub? Too bad.

The balloon pop you heard was hundreds of raid groups disbanding.

Yeah, hundreds. lol...

I'd love to see some evidence of this.

[Hyperia]

Boja is made by the exploration team while Ultimate is made by the raiding team. The raiding team is needed to make the Ex trials and new raid content for EW. The exploration team is finishing their work and then off to do EW content if it’s planned or disband and go to other teams if there giving up on exploration content.

I’d rather that the Exploration content team make new open world quests and other events in the existing world rather than new zones using runes that nearly nobody uses.

[Vahlnir]

Yeah, hundreds. lol...

I'd love to see some evidence of this.

Considering only a fraction of the player base even does savage, and an even smaller fraction of that fraction bothers with Ultimate I definitely don't think that "hundreds" of raid groups disbanding is accurate.

[linayar]

It's irrelevent? Exactly HOW?! This content is not meant to be a one and done raid. This is meant to be grinded. It wants a large amount of players, so even players who actually WANT to do the content won't even be able to do it. Which means those players aren't getting those rewards they want. This is Castrum all over again. For that matter, many people can't even do DR, because they cannot get a Castrum clear, further exacerbating the issue! By the time, SE decides to "fix" castrum rewards, and some people start getting clears, they are going to find this content completely dead. Nobody is going to want to prog with them, when they can lose hundreds of thousands of mettle in the process!

It's irrelevant because the community can make it happen if enough people want to do it.

And if there is problem with DR Savage, the solution is to fix it, not cut it entirely. And if the community really has given up on it, then it may be a failed content, but again, developers shouldn't get accustomed to give up on potential "dead" content, but rather to learn and to make future content like it be more viable for repeatability.

[MPK]

DR is a promised content that is part of Bozja, so they cannot delay/cut it. Ultimate is not tied to a specific content, only requiring being after a Savage tier for unlock/item level requirement, so it can be moved to any odd-numbered major patch.

Whether DR "survives in the long run" is up to the community and any adjustment that may occur to the content, but has no bearing on what their priority should be for this expansion. This is especially true since DR is scheduled for 5.4x while Ultimate was supposed to be for 5.5x.

Square promised us 2 ultimates per expansion. They never promised anything about a 48 man savage content.

[Mahoukenshi]

Square promised us 2 ultimates per expansion. They never promised anything about a 48 man savage content.

I can't remember that anybody asked for 48 man savage either.