Revelations from the Announcement Showcase

[Enkidoh]

Oh wow those totally are the Magus Sisters. Yeah I can see this place being Tower of Zot for sure. I wonder if we'll see the Giant of Babil too?

We already got the Giant of Babil in ShB, it was the Giant Talos we used to access Mount Gulg and Vauthry's fake heaven (given further proof with the dwarves being nearby and involved in it's construction). Okay it wasn't exactly the same in name, but it was so clearly referencing it I immediately took notice and added it to my list of 'references from past FF games'.

As for that art, that's clearly part of the new Pandemonium raid, itself based on Pandemonium from FFII which had similar decor (right down to the 'Hell on Earth' imagery and occupying the evil Empire's capital city). Either way, we'll find out more soon.

[Alleo]

Looks can be deceiving. If you flip it so Zodiark is on top, you can see he has a facial expression that indicates fear or pain, he leans back and reaches out to the viewer. His gaze is towards Hydealyn, but Hydealyn doesn't look at Zodiark, she looks a bit ashamed.

Of course the picture can be seen that way but honestly it could also be that he is afraid that he might lose his power. Others on reddit have said that it looks like he is grabbing at the moon. I also dont see Hydealyn as looking like she is ashamed but that is bias talking of course.

I am just not sure why he decided to really make him look like the devil especially since ingame their pictures always show the same kind of figure.

We will see however what they have in store with him. My problem is more that he seemingly did not stop his tempered followers before the summoning of Hydealyn with their plans of sacrifices. He also seemingly does not command Elidibus who was his heart to stop the rest of the Ascians with their plan. Was it because he simply could not? Or does he not want to? Both could happen and honestly I would be fine with him being a nicer being and maybe having him and Hydealyn living in harmony at the end but its just funny that he still shown that way.

[Lauront]

So now that we've seen the announcement, what do you think was the reason Yoshi-P said to refresh ourselves on Heavensward? Do you think it was just Estinien or something more? Theories?

Well it gives Estinien's background, but it also contains that scene with Hydaelyn giving her version of events. And we're going to be touching on that again, so that's one possible reason. As an aside, people have noted the aesthetic similarity between the Void Ark raids and Fandaniel's play pens (implying a possible connection), so maybe that, but I believe he'd be more specific if that were just that.

Also, when did the moon form? My understanding was that it formed with Hydaelyn ejecting Zodiark; her words at least imply it, and if memory serves, it doesn't exist in the sky in the Amaurot dungeon, either. So why does that scene - pre-sundering as it seems to be - show him shielding it, if that's what he's doing?

It may be a red herring, but the tip of her sceptre does seem to show two orbs - one blue, and a larger, blurrier red one. The two moons theme is one from IV as well as IX. XIV once had two moons but we know one was false and we can put that aside. It's been noted Fandaniel has some Kuja vibes (betrays his masters, has a rather camp demeanour, a destructive impulse, and as of late, accompanied by a dragon), so I wonder if they're doing a tie-in in that sense, a la Terra/Gaia, in turn tying into the fate of the ancients, only perhaps having them on the receiving end of something similar. Although there are some parallels between Terra and the ancient world, and Garland and the unsundered trio, there's also points in Gaia which resemble what happened to Amaurot, namely the expulsion of the rejected Gaian souls. There is something that struck me as somewhat similar in Through His Eyes - i.e. the event about which Hades was called to assist Hythlodaeus. That involved a lost/anguished soul from the Underworld fixing itself to a creation, which Hades promptly resolved; the phenomenon was noted to be unusual. Although it could be unrelated, what if that was an early manifestation of the crisis that would later engulf the world and what prompted the whole study of phantomology in the first place? With the idea being that the ancient world was subject to a similar soul division process as used in Gaia and Terra that disrupted the normal "flow" of the Underworld, whence the sound triggering the loss of control over the creation magicks (then spawning the monstrosities) originated in the first place. Perhaps as a result of an outright invasion later, once enough knowledge had been garnered about the ancients.

Another interesting parallel is the Iifa tree's biological structure, such as this, which is not too dissimilar to this. If they were to weave in the Tower of Babil somehow, it'd provide an interesting architecture for it - and the connection to the Underworld would provide a parallel to the base of the Iifa tree.

As for Zodiark, at least appearance-wise, he has noted similarities to Necron, so this art piece is interesting given the expression. One angle is that the newly summoned Zodiark will take on a similar outlook to Necron, having witnessed the actions of Zenos and Fandaniel, both of which have a nihilistic bent.

There's also this curiosity in Ilsabard's map.

With the expansion drawing so much on IV as well, perhaps they'll try weave Zemus into it, and as for the XII connection between Zenos (Vayne) and Venat may be realised in Zenos getting the notion to absorb Hydaelyn's power, so I'm intrigued to see how they'll proceed in practice, as they'll no doubt be adding their own twists to each prior FF's story. With IX being one of my favourite ones though, I'm hoping to see some elements of it at the forefront.

Of course the picture can be seen that way but honestly it could also be that he is afraid that he might lose his power. Others on reddit have said that it looks like he is grabbing at the moon. I also dont see Hydealyn as looking like she is ashamed but that is bias talking of course.

I am just not sure why he decided to really make him look like the devil especially since ingame their pictures always show the same kind of figure.

We will see however what they have in store with him. My problem is more that he seemingly did not stop his tempered followers before the summoning of Hydealyn with their plans of sacrifices. He also seemingly does not command Elidibus who was his heart to stop the rest of the Ascians with their plan. Was it because he simply could not? Or does he not want to? Both could happen and honestly I would be fine with him being a nicer being and maybe having him and Hydealyn living in harmony at the end but its just funny that he still shown that way.

Because the planned sacrifices were deemed to be in the best interests of the star's future prosperity by the Convocation. Elidibus - his "heart", and by that I assume his controller - trusted his peers' judgement and by all accounts did not use the tempering to control their minds. Likewise, Emet-Selch afforded him so much autonomy that, even though he thought he was wrong not to draw on his memories, he respected that decision. This view is how the Convocation saw it, and even Venat did not dispute that they were well-intentioned. She just thought they were stubbornly rejecting her viewpoint that their doom hadn't been averted. We don't know the basis of that belief, and it is entirely possible that the whole matter of the sacrifices was brought in precisely to cause this kind of conflict and impel her group to summon Hydaelyn, in order to remove him. At the same time, Elidibus had taken his leave of Zodiark to mediate the dispute and then Zodiark had another primal grafted onto him. I am sure Zodiark experienced a sense of dread given the specific style of her attack - enervation - but he was summoned to save (and by implication, protect) the world, so it's not hard to believe the dread related to failure to fulfill that duty as well. Being rendered impotent to do so would then play into that. With Elidibus out of him and potentially unable to re-enter him once the Primals locked into battle, the Primal was probably both angered and anguished by what was happening, and the two on a collision course.

I don't think they'd be drawing attention to the matter of (no) good and evil and light/dark if there was not something more going on and we know an awful lot about Zodiark by now which has subverted views of him being a blood god etc etc, so the appearances seem rather irrelevant to me.

So while they didn't say much about the new 24-man, they did say it's an FF14-specific story that ties into one of the big unresolved pieces of Eorzean lore.

That has to be Silvertear, right?

I meant to post this the other day but forgot ... it's a definite possibility, and there was this interesting tidbit:

GE: Speaking of stuff we talked about before that may have fallen through the cracks… Do you have any updates on the so-called mysterious primal? There was the idea that right after Gaius took Ala Mhigo, he was going to keep going, but a primal halted his advance. It could have happened in ’57; could have happened in ’62.

Koji: That was related to the whole, “What lies deep beneath Silvertear!?” Yes, something stopped his advance. And then there was the trailer beam, tons of primals shooting out. And then there was the seal. What is it sealing? What was going on in there? A lot of this is where the 1.0 story was supposed to go, and there’s a lore reason for that.

When the Calamity happened, it caused a lot of changes to Hydaelyn. Whether that was enough to seal off something that was already sealed, but the seal was getting weak, or… That I don’t know. There could be something like that. The hint was that Gaius was stopped for a reason, and that it was a powerful force. There’s a presence. It wasn’t just Midgardsormr there, it was more of a force, and I can’t say anything more, for now.

[RyuDragnier]

snip

Perhaps we're also getting a FF5 reference in there? After all, near the end of FF5 Worlds 1 and 2 merged to create World 3. Perhaps we're already on World 3, and the Sound was caused by the Ascian world merging with another? If the moon is Zodiark rejected out of the planet by Hydaelyn, then what controlled the tides of the original planet? Maybe the reason we don't see the moon in the dungeon is because the moon was World 2, and had already begun to merge with the planet. This would cause devastation on a global scale as all Calamities do.

[Lauront]

They tend to have specific explanations for a lot of things in the setting itself, like regular daylight being connected to lightning or fire aether if memory serves, or linkpearls utilising (lightning) aether to transmit voice messages, that differ from physics on earth. I'd imagine the tides function much the same (i.e. the product of how water aether functions), unless there's some specific statement on that tying the moon and tides together. In any case, I'm not familiar with V but I was kind of looking at it that way, yes.

[manamoppet]

Is it just me, or does some of the décor look like elephant heads? Would that be connected to the Matanga?

[Alleo]

Because the planned sacrifices were deemed to be in the best interests of the star's future prosperity by the Convocation. Elidibus - his "heart", and by that I assume his controller - trusted his peers' judgement and by all accounts did not use the tempering to control their minds. Likewise, Emet-Selch afforded him so much autonomy that, even though he thought he was wrong not to draw on his memories, he respected that decision. This view is how the Convocation saw it, and even Venat did not dispute that they were well-intentioned. She just thought they were stubbornly rejecting her viewpoint that their doom hadn't been averted.

Yes deemed by the Convocation which were at that time already tempered. The convocation also might have been the leaders of one big city but that does not really give them the right to decide the future of a huge amount of people. After all we are talking about a time where the planet and the survivors were save.

We also cant just assume that he somehow not uses his tempering. Emet outright states that they are of course tempered but that it doesnt matter because he would have done it anyway. (Which I wonder if that holds true since after all they dont know how it would be without tempering) And being tempered imo does not mean that they will controll every part of their lifes.

[LineageRazor]

The convocation also might have been the leaders of one big city but that does not really give them the right to decide the future of a huge amount of people.

Well, Emet-Selch makes it clear that every Ancient who gave up his or her life did so VOLUNTARILY. It's something he presents as another piece of evidence that his people have a more worthly claim to existence than the selfish, petty things that infest the planet now. The Convocation didn't just say, "Zodiark, go eat all these people." They asked the people in question if they would consent to be eaten, for the sake of the future of the star. And they did consent. I couldn't find the exact quote, but to paraphrase a question Emet poses to the Scions: "Can you even imagine such an act of altruism from your own people?" The Scions were not able to affirm.

[Lauront]

Yes deemed by the Convocation which were at that time already tempered. The convocation also might have been the leaders of one big city but that does not really give them the right to decide the future of a huge amount of people. After all we are talking about a time where the planet and the survivors were save.

We also cant just assume that he somehow not uses his tempering. Emet outright states that they are of course tempered but that it doesnt matter because he would have done it anyway. (Which I wonder if that holds true since after all they dont know how it would be without tempering) And being tempered imo does not mean that they will controll every part of their lifes.

Aside from the fact that the initial two rounds of sacrifice were voluntary, the Convocation possessed this authority because it was their governing body and by all accounts the body which oversaw the star itself. While there are indications that the other cities had a degree of autonomy, it does look like it had the final say over all matters. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter whether you or I consider it moral, but whether they did in the framework of their society (and its prevailing mores), and also one where souls are essentially "recyclable". If their society took the stance that the new life owed its very being to those who sacrificed themselves, and therefore it must now yield for their restoration, as this would also be in the best interests of managing the star (as it would expedite the restoration of their civilisation), then that is the perspective Zodiark is aligned to via his "heart", Elidibus.

As for them being tempered, that's a tricky question. Did it subvert their will? Maybe, but for all practical purposes it doesn't seem to have. Elidibus doesn't use Zodiark's power to enforce his will on those who disagreed, but emerges from him to mediate the issue. Venat doesn't raise the point at all. She doesn't say "oh, they're in thrall of this primal, how can they know what is best?", but says they refuse to see her point but nonetheless strive for what is best... and then goes onto summon a Primal with her own group. I also think we've seen enough now of Elidibus to determine he wasn't some cackling maniac. He's not Fandaniel or Zenos. He had aspirations of heroism and was very dutiful. Aspects which I assume carried over to Zodiark. As for the Primal demanding sacrifices to feed himself - well he already was installed in the Aetherial Sea, and had expedited the process of revitalising the planet. Why not just keep the aether to himself and even bother with all that if the intention was to gobble them? Assuming he'd even need to. Hydaelyn doesn't. What if the reason she doesn't is the same reason he doesn't? I.e. the design of his "battery" (maybe an auracite; the nature of the Heart of Sabik supports this idea.)

While I won't rule out the possibility of there being stuff to come which changes all this, as we're almost bound to get new curveballs, based on the current information we have, I see little reason to say that they're trying to portray Zodiark as "evil". His appearance, from what we know, is simply to do with the aspect of darkness, much like Hydaelyn's stems from the aspect of light. There are many ways you can write either of the two to put them in the position of antagonists without making them evil in the typical sense. This is also probably all very abstract and less directly related to Zodiark's anguish in that scene, which in my view is more to do with this hostile primal attacking him out of nowhere, enervating him, meaning he will fail in his duty.

[YianKutku]

Well, Emet-Selch makes it clear that every Ancient who gave up his or her life did so VOLUNTARILY. It's something he presents as another piece of evidence that his people have a more worthly claim to existence than the selfish, petty things that infest the planet now. The Convocation didn't just say, "Zodiark, go eat all these people." They asked the people in question if they would consent to be eaten, for the sake of the future of the star. And they did consent. I couldn't find the exact quote, but to paraphrase a question Emet poses to the Scions: "Can you even imagine such an act of altruism from your own people?" The Scions were not able to affirm.

Which always struck me as author-fiat writing, since the Scions are demonstrations of that altruism, risking their lives (and souls) for the sake of people from an entirely different world. Y'shtola cast Flow (again) to save the Night's Blessed, without any guarantee that she would be able to get back out of the Lifestream (and indeed without Emet-Selch's help, she would not). The Scions didn't need to verbally affirm, but they absolutely could, and I would argue they should due to the need to clarify matters.

And if the Scions are examples of that altruism, that proves the point in principle, and the exact proportion of the Sundered who would sacrifice themselves to save the others is just haggling.

Also the Convocation may have asked the people of the Ancient world if they were willing to consent to being eaten by Zodiark, but they sure as heck did not ask the people of the shards if they consented to being made to suffer and die to rejoin the worlds. (As Lahabrea insists during Praetorium, the suffering is necessary for the rejoining.)