Revelations from the Announcement Showcase

[Alleo]

Because the planned sacrifices were deemed to be in the best interests of the star's future prosperity by the Convocation. Elidibus - his "heart", and by that I assume his controller - trusted his peers' judgement and by all accounts did not use the tempering to control their minds. Likewise, Emet-Selch afforded him so much autonomy that, even though he thought he was wrong not to draw on his memories, he respected that decision. This view is how the Convocation saw it, and even Venat did not dispute that they were well-intentioned. She just thought they were stubbornly rejecting her viewpoint that their doom hadn't been averted.

Yes deemed by the Convocation which were at that time already tempered. The convocation also might have been the leaders of one big city but that does not really give them the right to decide the future of a huge amount of people. After all we are talking about a time where the planet and the survivors were save.

We also cant just assume that he somehow not uses his tempering. Emet outright states that they are of course tempered but that it doesnt matter because he would have done it anyway. (Which I wonder if that holds true since after all they dont know how it would be without tempering) And being tempered imo does not mean that they will controll every part of their lifes.

[LineageRazor]

The convocation also might have been the leaders of one big city but that does not really give them the right to decide the future of a huge amount of people.

Well, Emet-Selch makes it clear that every Ancient who gave up his or her life did so VOLUNTARILY. It's something he presents as another piece of evidence that his people have a more worthly claim to existence than the selfish, petty things that infest the planet now. The Convocation didn't just say, "Zodiark, go eat all these people." They asked the people in question if they would consent to be eaten, for the sake of the future of the star. And they did consent. I couldn't find the exact quote, but to paraphrase a question Emet poses to the Scions: "Can you even imagine such an act of altruism from your own people?" The Scions were not able to affirm.

[YianKutku]

Well, Emet-Selch makes it clear that every Ancient who gave up his or her life did so VOLUNTARILY. It's something he presents as another piece of evidence that his people have a more worthly claim to existence than the selfish, petty things that infest the planet now. The Convocation didn't just say, "Zodiark, go eat all these people." They asked the people in question if they would consent to be eaten, for the sake of the future of the star. And they did consent. I couldn't find the exact quote, but to paraphrase a question Emet poses to the Scions: "Can you even imagine such an act of altruism from your own people?" The Scions were not able to affirm.

Which always struck me as author-fiat writing, since the Scions are demonstrations of that altruism, risking their lives (and souls) for the sake of people from an entirely different world. Y'shtola cast Flow (again) to save the Night's Blessed, without any guarantee that she would be able to get back out of the Lifestream (and indeed without Emet-Selch's help, she would not). The Scions didn't need to verbally affirm, but they absolutely could, and I would argue they should due to the need to clarify matters.

And if the Scions are examples of that altruism, that proves the point in principle, and the exact proportion of the Sundered who would sacrifice themselves to save the others is just haggling.

Also the Convocation may have asked the people of the Ancient world if they were willing to consent to being eaten by Zodiark, but they sure as heck did not ask the people of the shards if they consented to being made to suffer and die to rejoin the worlds. (As Lahabrea insists during Praetorium, the suffering is necessary for the rejoining.)

[Vyrerus]

Which always struck me as author-fiat writing, since the Scions are demonstrations of that altruism

It's kind of not though, because as good as the Scions are, they kind of aren't just pure altruists, they are Sharlayan moral supremacists. That, and, the actual quote is in reference to the general populace. Since the Scions genuinely believe themselves to be better than the general populace, they bite their tongues. Alphinaud's response to Emet-selch is, "Emet-selch!... We understand, truly, but it makes no difference. The ones you love are in the past. While ours are here in the present. One day, we too will be ashes and dust, but not today. Our time is not yet finished. We share your conviction, and that is why we will not abandon our course."

[Vyrerus]

Well, Emet-Selch makes it clear that every Ancient who gave up his or her life did so VOLUNTARILY. It's something he presents as another piece of evidence that his people have a more worthly claim to existence than the selfish, petty things that infest the planet now. The Convocation didn't just say, "Zodiark, go eat all these people." They asked the people in question if they would consent to be eaten, for the sake of the future of the star. And they did consent. I couldn't find the exact quote, but to paraphrase a question Emet poses to the Scions: "Can you even imagine such an act of altruism from your own people?" The Scions were not able to affirm.

The exact quote comes shortly before Amaurot dungeon, when he's going on his diatribe about having lived a thousand, thousand of our lives and sired children with our kind. It is spoken thus, "Let us imagine that the laws of reality are undone, and the world faces true annihilation. Do you honestly believe that half your number would sacrifice themselves to save the other?... Of course they wouldn't!"

[MrThinker]

"Let us imagine that the laws of reality are undone, and the world faces true annihilation. Do you honestly believe that half your number would sacrifice themselves to save the other?... Of course they wouldn't!"

"And if you had witnessed history unfold as I have, you would come to the exact same conclusion!"

I believe this part really nails that point home. Emet isn't pulling this viewpoint out of his rear, everything he's seen about the sundered life has given him no confidence. The Scions also know their history, they experienced the selfishness and greed of the vain first hand, first through Teledji and Lolorito, then Ilberd. The experiences of foes such as Fordola and Yotsuyu that turned them into what they are. The Scions are well aware that their contemporaries and their ancestors probably would not be possessed of such moral fibre as to willingly sacrifice themselves on such a scale.

[Alleo]

Well, Emet-Selch makes it clear that every Ancient who gave up his or her life did so VOLUNTARILY. It's something he presents as another piece of evidence that his people have a more worthly claim to existence than the selfish, petty things that infest the planet now. The Convocation didn't just say, "Zodiark, go eat all these people." They asked the people in question if they would consent to be eaten, for the sake of the future of the star. And they did consent. I couldn't find the exact quote, but to paraphrase a question Emet poses to the Scions: "Can you even imagine such an act of altruism from your own people?" The Scions were not able to affirm.

But I am not even talking about those voluntarily sacrificing their lifes, I am talking about the new lifes...the lifes that the tempered Ascians planned to sacrifice to get the ones back that choose to sacrifice themselves. Which is why I said that I find it strange that Zodiark never stopped them from doing that. Did he not want to stop that or could he not?

Also its funny how the scions never confirmed when the future source did exactly that. They believed that changing the future will destroy theirs and yet they still did that.

@Lauront: We have not seen much from Venat, maybe they simply did not know that they were tempered, after all they were the leaders of Amaurot, so who knows if they were not able to hide it. (Not everyone could read souls like Emet) Of course tempering from an elder primal could work out different but I right now just will assume that tempering works like tempering does to others. And its not like a lot of the tempered beast tribes are completely out of their minds either. They just worked towards achieving the goal that their primal has.

So yes I wont rule out any possiblity either but I still doubt that Zodiark is completely neutral at all. Not that I would be angry if he is.

"And if you had witnessed history unfold as I have, you would come to the exact same conclusion!"

I believe this part really nails that point home. Emet isn't pulling this viewpoint out of his rear, everything he's seen about the sundered life has given him no confidence. The Scions also know their history, they experienced the selfishness and greed of the vain first hand, first through Teledji and Lolorito, then Ilberd. The experiences of foes such as Fordola and Yotsuyu that turned them into what they are. The Scions are well aware that their contemporaries and their ancestors probably would not be possessed of such moral fibre as to willingly sacrifice themselves on such a scale.

A history the Ascians did have quite some hands in it. But lets not pretend that Ancients ones were perfect either. Even just in Amaurot the devs did not shy away from showing us that maybe these perfect beings (as Emet sees them) are not really perfect. And in the end it is admirable that they sacrificed themselves but lets not forget that most of the world was already consumed by that point...they only acted when it was at their doors. Heck even the Ascians seemingly only care about the people that are eaten by Zodiark and not all those reborn Ancient ones.

We of course have a lot of bad people in Eorzea and the rest of the world. But the story showed again and again that there will be good people too that will fight for what is right and do everything to save others. And the future source is bascially showing Emets words to be wrong. Because they did the sacrifice after all. And just like how they did it because their world was probably messed up, the same can be said to those Ancient ones. They did after all gave their lifes for others and should be held in high regards for this, but they did this when the world was ending and not doing anything would have meant death anyways.

[TheRod]

Personally, I suspect lots will end up disappointed with the history, much to the same reasons of the long threads we had complaining about Shadowbringers, be them here, Reddit, Gamefaqs or elsewhere (quick google and will find posts about people complaining we used even more light, there was no "blessing of darkness", plus, due that, the "Warrior of Darkness" title was a clever metaphorical one only, our character wasn't put into a position truly at odds with light and having to abandon it, but rather just worked as "regulator" of sorts or even helped again by it via the Oracle of Light).

If not mistaken, some even threatened to sue Square for "false advertising", lol - and this is real, can look for it in this very same forums.

In the end, the writing is pretty idealistic. Our character will always be the goody two shoes, who will be smiling and saving cats in trees: we will always be the Superman, Steve Rogers, Aragorn (whose may not be the coolest, but need to be there for the final strike, for the "good", "heroic" message) and never the Batman, Big Boss or a Geralt (operating more on the gray area if convenient) - I really doubt, after all these years, and in the final chapter of this season, that it'll change.

Especially, since it ends in the expansion itself. There'll be less time for more questions or more complex/demanding developments.

I expect even more on the typical idealism again. This imagery of the Paladin - bar all the Cecil parallels - displays exactly the imagery of the noble good knight clad in shiny armor to save the day - our typical heroic fairytale.

[TheRod]

Got to read the lastest Yoshida interview for Famitsu (just now translated by AkhMorning) and I immediatelly reminded of this passage in my previous post:

(...)

I expect even more on the typical idealism again. This imagery of the Paladin - bar all the Cecil parallels - displays exactly the imagery of the noble good knight clad in shiny armor to save the day - our typical heroic fairytale.

And Yoshi-P basically confirms that the main reason for the Paladin choice wasn't especifically meant as Cecil reference, but the typical imagery of the "heroic hopeful knight" the Paladin presents:

Famitsu: The main job for this expansion looks to be Paladin here, does this mean you’ve picked the job because of its connections to FFIV, or is there any other reason behind the job selection?

Naoki Yoshida: When I thought of how to illustrate what hope means to myself and other people in a straightforward manner, I thought Paladin would be the most suitable one to represent that theme among all the jobs in FFXIV. When I think about who would be the first one to move forward while carrying the burden of everything even when cornered, this job would be the best to represent that… so it was a straightforward reason and also the major one behind this decision.

And as essentially extracted from the PLD symbology/iconicism, story keeps en route with the idealistic stuff:

Naoki Yoshida: This applies to Final Fantasy XIV overall here but I think the story that is weaved throughout the Hydaelyn-Zodiark saga does have the aspect of “hope against despair” here. For example, the same is also true for the image of that slight despair that was felt when the legacy of FFXIV was running, and from there comes the release of “A Realm Reborn”.

How the players will manage to find hope within the “despair over the apocalypse” situation will also be included as the theme for this expansion. The heroes who will face the hardships with the despair looming around them… this will be the nuance I wish the players would understand here.

Overall, he said story will be very epic/much bigger, but not necessarily it'll be unexpected:

Naoki Yoshida: (..) To me, instead of portraying something that subverts everyone’s expectations, I’d say the desire to surpass the scope of imagination is actually much stronger here.

[Ramesses]

Personally, I suspect lots will end up disappointed with the history, much to the same reasons of the long threads we had complaining about Shadowbringers, be them here, Reddit, Gamefaqs or elsewhere (quick google and will find posts about people complaining we used even more light, there was no "blessing of darkness", plus, due that, the "Warrior of Darkness" title was a clever metaphorical one only, our character wasn't put into a position truly at odds with light and having to abandon it, but rather just worked as "regulator" of sorts or even helped again by it via the Oracle of Light).

If not mistaken, some even threatened to sue Square for "false advertising", lol - and this is real, can look for it in this very same forums.

In the end, the writing is pretty idealistic. Our character will always be the goody two shoes, who will be smiling and saving cats in trees: we will always be the Superman, Steve Rogers, Aragorn (whose may not be the coolest, but need to be there for the final strike, for the "good", "heroic" message) and never the Batman, Big Boss or a Geralt (operating more on the gray area if convenient) - I really doubt, after all these years, and in the final chapter of this season, that it'll change.

Especially, since it ends in the expansion itself. There'll be less time for more questions or more complex/demanding developments.

I expect even more on the typical idealism again. This imagery of the Paladin - bar all the Cecil parallels - displays exactly the imagery of the noble good knight clad in shiny armor to save the day - our typical heroic fairytale.

This-- exactly this.