Treading Dangerous Ground

[Deli]

hmm... I don't think small amount is an issue tho...
many of the poll you saw on TV, such as presidential election prediction, these are using small amount to predict the big amount. They randomly select people and call them to see which option they choose. Since it's completely random, the actual test result will show a trend that is closer to real outcome.
However, the key is "it has to be completely random"

In forum, people build up emotion with each other. you will see complain threads come up first, then the sarcasm threads about the same topic. people are influence each other. This might be the better argument poll is not that reliable.

However, it still reflects the real player body's point of view. It's still somehow random people show up and leave a post. In the end, they just want to see the trend... not exactly 51% hate it or 30% want it.

[let me complain some other little things... ^^:] same thing about the damage test... test body isn't an issue as the same reason... I never want to know the exact formula. I just want to know the general trend, which one is better. At least I did something, not just sit there and use my mouth to figure out, or predict something like a psychic. 30+ damage average > I feel/ I think/ I see.

[Biggs]

hmm... I don't think small amount is an issue tho...
many of the poll you saw on TV, such as presidential election prediction, these are using small amount to predict the big amount. They randomly select people and call them to see which option they choose. Since it's completely random, the actual test result will show a trend that is closer to real outcome.
However, the key is "it has to be completely random"

In forum, people build up emotion with each other. you will see complain threads come up first, then the sarcasm threads about the same topic. people are influence each other. This might be the better argument poll is not that reliable.

However, it still reflects the real player body's point of view. It's still somehow random people show up and leave a post. In the end, they just want to see the trend... not exactly 51% hate it or 30% want it.

[let me complain some other little things... ^^:] same thing about the damage test... test body isn't an issue as the same reason... I never want to know the exact formula. I just want to know the general trend, which one is better. At least I did something, not just sit there and use my mouth or predict something like a psychic. 30+ damage average > I feel/ I think/ I see.

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample. That would be like going a Republican convention to take a sample poll about how Americans feel about President Obama.

[Deli]

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample. That would be like going a Republican convention to take a sample poll about how Americans feel about President Obama.

hmm... I think the better example is japanese side has huge flame about Ul'dah get 2 good crafters' gears and no other companies get, the same issue is better in US forum. It got fixed quickly. So, their sample collection is easier in japanese site than US. voice heard maybe more toward Japanese too.

I think it's not they response to negative more than positive. Issue like Goobbue mount I believe they saw it. Lots people hates it and lots people love it. This is the thing won't got pull away soon. When there is negative, there will be supportive voice come up. that shows how forum still not black and white bias.

However, I do think it's getting noisier... It's like when the kids know they can get a candy when they do A (just easier so not bias, but in my mind is "fake crying"... you can think other way as "get a good score in school"!)... so now they want a car, they do A. They want a robot, they do A... It's more about personal interest not the general public interest.
HOWEVER, just like what you usually heard, "ask when you have a question" because lots people will have same question too! It's another example of small voice "maybe" can represent the bigger general body...

Another thing we have emotion link with each other, so when negative emotion comes up, the whole society might looks pissed off. It's not they just care about negative voice...it's just this place is full with negative since SE had a bad start... now many consumers always think they are victims and stand in the defense mode. Well, crying baby always get the candy. so remember to VOTE or thread! ^^

[Biggs]

However, I do think it's getting noisier... It's like when the kids know they can get a candy when they do A (just easier so not bias, but in my mind is "fake crying"... you can think other way as "get a good score in school"!)... so now they want a car, they do A. They want a robot, they do A... It's more about personal interest not the general public interest.
HOWEVER, just like what you usually heard, "ask when you have a question" because lots people will have same question too! It's another example of small voice "maybe" can represent the bigger general body...

Another thing we have emotion link with each other, so when negative emotion comes up, the whole society might looks pissed off. It's not they just care about negative voice...it's just this place is full with negative since SE had a bad start... now many consumers always think they are victims and stand in the defense mode. Well, crying baby always get the candy. so remember to VOTE or thread! ^^

EXACTLY. Polling takes the emotion of it all COMPLETELY out of the equation. It also gives those that don't have the patience to put up with some of the things that go on in these forums the chance to express their opinions and desires free of player response. Its totally anonymous. I think the forums are a place they can go to find out WHy people want what they want, but when it comes to just finding out what they want, a poll (to me anyway) is the way to go everytime.

[KumaAkuma]

Polling takes the emotion of it all COMPLETELY out of the equation.

I think it's the exact opposite. Polls are about what people want, which is subjective (emotion). The underlying reasons (facts) as to why the people want what they want remains completely hidden in these polls.

[Biggs]

I think it's the exact opposite. Polls are about what people want, which is subjective (emotion). The underlying reasons (facts) as to why the people want what they want remains completely hidden in these polls.

I should have clarrified. Polling takes the lengthy responses that ussually contain emotions out of the equation while getting at the root of WHAT players want. I am not arguing that what people want is subjective, it is. My point, and the point of the OP, is that I dont want just the official forum community being the basis for large scale desicions that effect everyone. If you want 5% percent (again, made up number) determining what the rest of us will get, then by all means, thats what you want. To each his own man, I just don't think thats for me. This incident with the merger and his reaction to it though is what I used as an example to highlight my concern for what could happen in the future.

If a dev was to get on here and ask if people would like a Dragon mount (for example), and everyone was then to post a response explaining why they would or would not like one, you would probably get a very vast ranging list of responses on both sides. Take the same question and put it in a poll that just says WOUlD YOU LIKE A DRAGON MOUNT? CHECK YES OR CHECK NO. The results would be the same without them having to read 600 different reasons for WHY we want or dont want one. Its faster, more efficient, and typically more people respond to a poll instead of post a response, so they get a much better idea of what the community wants as whole.

[darkstarpoet1]

I should have clarrified. Polling takes the lengthy responses that ussually contain emotions out of the equation while getting at the root of WHAT players want. I am not arguing that what people want is subjective, it is. My point, and the point of the OP, is that I dont want just the official forum community being the basis for large scale desicions that effect everyone. If you want 5% percent (again, made up number) determining what the rest of us will get, then by all means, thats what you want. To each his own man, I just don't think thats for me. This incident with the merger and his reaction to it though is what I used as an example to highlight my concern for what could happen in the future.

If a dev was to get on here and ask if people would like a Dragon mount (for example), and everyone was then to post a response explaining why they would or would not like one, you would probably get a very vast ranging list of responses on both sides. Take the same question and put it in a poll that just says WOUlD YOU LIKE A DRAGON MOUNT? CHECK YES OR CHECK NO. The results would be the same without them having to read 600 different reasons for WHY we want or dont want one. Its faster, more efficient, and typically more people respond to a poll instead of post a response, so they get a much better idea of what the community wants as whole.

here's another part about polls that are an issue. if you took a poll asking which version of a merge was wanted or even if a merge was wanted then chances are very good that the large servers would have just voted against a merge. looking at these forums leading up til they said they were considering merging servers it was likely 3-1 people opposed to having a merge in the first place.

people on large servers didn't WANT a merge.
people on small servers did NEED a merge.

an overall players poll may have decided the majority didn't want a merge even though some actually do need them to happen. a poll is only as good as the questions are worded. the original poll asked very vague questions and many people, including myself, voted for one thing and have regretted them since.

[Quesse]

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample.

Yeah. I agree with this. Not only that, but the same people complain over and over again, so it ends up being really biased. I am for option four. But I don't go around making front page posts about my agreement. Maybe I should >.>;