Treading Dangerous Ground

[Noir]

I can't help but wonder if, the day he got on here and read all the negative feedback about his plan, he wasnt kicking himself for no having done so then. Like I said though, it is the potential for this sort of trend in desicion making to become more common that concerns me. As to the actual server merger issue itself, I could care less. I am on Kashuan for gods sake, I would have gladly taken ANY of those options and been pleased my server has been a freaking ghost town since last year.



Well, when would you like to voice your concern over this sort of trend exactly? Maybe we should wait until they do it again and its to late to stop it over something much more serious next time? I am sorry, but this is an MMO, and to me, player population IS a gameplay issue. This isn't a single player RPG man. I pay a monthly fee to play as part of a community, not sit around Kashuan with only 15 other people talking about the first 2 weeks of the game when we had a few thousand people on our server like it was the good ol days.


I got my percentage from the creative portion of my brain that makes up statistics when none are given to me. I am pretty sure I even say in the OP that that 5% is comepletely fictional because SE doesn't give out any numbers. However, the original player poll showed 10's of thousands of hits, and I can assure you there arent 10's of thousands of people that post on here, and all the other forums combined. In an ideal world, there would be and we could all have a pleasant discourse on the state of the game and discuss ideas we may not see eye-to-eye on without flaming the crap out of each other the way we do on here. But the is reality, and the reality is many people want nothing to do with these forums because either they dont use forums and blogging as a means to communicate, or they dont want to put up with a ton of ass clowns that want to call each other white Knights, trolls, and fanboys ever time they dont agree with a post. They shouldnt be ignored or punished by SE for not wanting to deal with some of the crap on these forums. And while I don't have numbers, I can assure you that 50% of the people that play this game DONT post on here.

I disagree. You don't need to check clowns here. But if you can't use the dev tracker and news main page, SE shouldn't give a rats about you. Plus, 50% uses it. I didn't say post only. But following the devs comments and reading whatever pops up. 50% is a pretty reasonable rate if not more.

[darkstarpoet1]

I disagree. You don't need to check clowns here. But if you can't use the dev tracker and news main page, SE shouldn't give a rats about you. Plus, 50% uses it. I didn't say post only. But following the devs comments and reading whatever pops up. 50% is a pretty reasonable rate if not more.

there is nowhere near 50% using it. on my entire server maybe 15 total people even keep up with anything this game does. that is lodestone, forums, and looking at other places online. if 1 out of 20 people on my server use the sites to keep up with the game they are playing what makes you think a higher percentage of people that do not play the game checks frequently?

i'd be willing to bet the % of people that actually keep up with what is going on instead of hearing it from others is alot closer to 5 than it is 50.

[Biggs]

I disagree. You don't need to check clowns here. But if you can't use the dev tracker and news main page, SE shouldn't give a rats about you. Plus, 50% uses it. I didn't say post only. But following the devs comments and reading whatever pops up. 50% is a pretty reasonable rate if not more.

I would say thats a REALLY optimistic number man. Of the 50 or so folks in my old linkshell, only 5 or 6 of us looked up ANYTHING on the lodestone, the rest got their info from the few of us that would check it. Most of the time I would announce upcoming news found on these sites, most players in my ls were unaware.

[KumaAkuma]

Only a small amount of people might have participated, but it was still a decent discussion. Options were discussed, opinions & facts were stated, pros and cons were weighed. This wasn't just about what the players would have liked, it was about what would have benefited the players the most too.

[Biggs]

I certainly dont want to detract from those that did post about it. My point is, all of the people that commented and left feedback are only a very small portion of the community. A poll about large scale decisions that affect EVERYONE, not just those that post, would have been a much better way to move forward with a change like this. I don't want a few hundred people effecting 1000's. The first player poll recieved 10's of thousands of hits. Stated here btw: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

10's of thousands of people may or may not be playing the game right now but it certainly shows that more people respond to polls, while I would be very skepticle if this official forum or even the popular fan sites (combined) get anywhere close to those numbers in player feedback. A poll would also include those that arent playing right now but wish to return, hence that would still be effected by something like this.

[Deli]

hmm... I don't think small amount is an issue tho...
many of the poll you saw on TV, such as presidential election prediction, these are using small amount to predict the big amount. They randomly select people and call them to see which option they choose. Since it's completely random, the actual test result will show a trend that is closer to real outcome.
However, the key is "it has to be completely random"

In forum, people build up emotion with each other. you will see complain threads come up first, then the sarcasm threads about the same topic. people are influence each other. This might be the better argument poll is not that reliable.

However, it still reflects the real player body's point of view. It's still somehow random people show up and leave a post. In the end, they just want to see the trend... not exactly 51% hate it or 30% want it.

[let me complain some other little things... ^^:] same thing about the damage test... test body isn't an issue as the same reason... I never want to know the exact formula. I just want to know the general trend, which one is better. At least I did something, not just sit there and use my mouth to figure out, or predict something like a psychic. 30+ damage average > I feel/ I think/ I see.

[Biggs]

hmm... I don't think small amount is an issue tho...
many of the poll you saw on TV, such as presidential election prediction, these are using small amount to predict the big amount. They randomly select people and call them to see which option they choose. Since it's completely random, the actual test result will show a trend that is closer to real outcome.
However, the key is "it has to be completely random"

In forum, people build up emotion with each other. you will see complain threads come up first, then the sarcasm threads about the same topic. people are influence each other. This might be the better argument poll is not that reliable.

However, it still reflects the real player body's point of view. It's still somehow random people show up and leave a post. In the end, they just want to see the trend... not exactly 51% hate it or 30% want it.

[let me complain some other little things... ^^:] same thing about the damage test... test body isn't an issue as the same reason... I never want to know the exact formula. I just want to know the general trend, which one is better. At least I did something, not just sit there and use my mouth or predict something like a psychic. 30+ damage average > I feel/ I think/ I see.

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample. That would be like going a Republican convention to take a sample poll about how Americans feel about President Obama.

[Deli]

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample. That would be like going a Republican convention to take a sample poll about how Americans feel about President Obama.

hmm... I think the better example is japanese side has huge flame about Ul'dah get 2 good crafters' gears and no other companies get, the same issue is better in US forum. It got fixed quickly. So, their sample collection is easier in japanese site than US. voice heard maybe more toward Japanese too.

I think it's not they response to negative more than positive. Issue like Goobbue mount I believe they saw it. Lots people hates it and lots people love it. This is the thing won't got pull away soon. When there is negative, there will be supportive voice come up. that shows how forum still not black and white bias.

However, I do think it's getting noisier... It's like when the kids know they can get a candy when they do A (just easier so not bias, but in my mind is "fake crying"... you can think other way as "get a good score in school"!)... so now they want a car, they do A. They want a robot, they do A... It's more about personal interest not the general public interest.
HOWEVER, just like what you usually heard, "ask when you have a question" because lots people will have same question too! It's another example of small voice "maybe" can represent the bigger general body...

Another thing we have emotion link with each other, so when negative emotion comes up, the whole society might looks pissed off. It's not they just care about negative voice...it's just this place is full with negative since SE had a bad start... now many consumers always think they are victims and stand in the defense mode. Well, crying baby always get the candy. so remember to VOTE or thread! ^^

[Biggs]

However, I do think it's getting noisier... It's like when the kids know they can get a candy when they do A (just easier so not bias, but in my mind is "fake crying"... you can think other way as "get a good score in school"!)... so now they want a car, they do A. They want a robot, they do A... It's more about personal interest not the general public interest.
HOWEVER, just like what you usually heard, "ask when you have a question" because lots people will have same question too! It's another example of small voice "maybe" can represent the bigger general body...

Another thing we have emotion link with each other, so when negative emotion comes up, the whole society might looks pissed off. It's not they just care about negative voice...it's just this place is full with negative since SE had a bad start... now many consumers always think they are victims and stand in the defense mode. Well, crying baby always get the candy. so remember to VOTE or thread! ^^

EXACTLY. Polling takes the emotion of it all COMPLETELY out of the equation. It also gives those that don't have the patience to put up with some of the things that go on in these forums the chance to express their opinions and desires free of player response. Its totally anonymous. I think the forums are a place they can go to find out WHy people want what they want, but when it comes to just finding out what they want, a poll (to me anyway) is the way to go everytime.

[KumaAkuma]

Polling takes the emotion of it all COMPLETELY out of the equation.

I think it's the exact opposite. Polls are about what people want, which is subjective (emotion). The underlying reasons (facts) as to why the people want what they want remains completely hidden in these polls.