Remove Gender-Lock From Gear / Glamour Please

[SturmChurro]

i actually was considering buying a fantasia to switch over to miqo for a bit, but i might take you up on that and buy an extra one to switch to hrothgar for a bit. there's some fem-exclu glams that i still want to wear and love, but ive already got a hrothgar saved for a side toon, might as well bring him out!

Nice! Looking forward to the shots! I'm sure he'll look fabulous, and I expect some supermodel-esque poses!

[Packetdancer]

There are already plenty of pants in-game for females to wear, I supplied alternatives previously in the thread. As for dresses, there are already a handful of female clothing options for males to wear. I have seen hrothgar running around in them before, and I suspect they will add more over time. You can do all this without spending a dollar on their mogstation!

My forum quote aside (though I stand by my extreme annoyance at pants turning into underwear or miniskirts for real in-game gear), what really irks me is chest gear. Just going through the Mogstation: let me use the Snow coat, or the coat from the Far Eastern Officer's set, or the top from the Far Eastern Garb for Men, or from the Lord's Suikan Set.

Let me have the vest from the last Valentione event, instead of the dress. Etc.

[LisSquid]

My forum quote aside (though I stand by my extreme annoyance at pants turning into underwear or miniskirts for real in-game gear), what really irks me is chest gear. Just going through the Mogstation: let me use the Snow coat, or the coat from the Far Eastern Officer's set, or the top from the Far Eastern Garb for Men, or from the Lord's Suikan Set.

Let me have the vest from the last Valentione event, instead of the dress. Etc.

I won't lie I wept seeing the cryptlurker set for aiming. An actual cuffed jacket? No needless ribbons and bows?? Be still my heart I finally have it at last.

[Packetdancer]

I won't lie I wept seeing the cryptlurker set for aiming. An actual cuffed jacket? No needless ribbons and bows?? Be still my heart I finally have it at last.

Right?! We've been surprisingly lucky with some of the endgame gear this expansion. I'm also quite fond of the Crystarium Coat of Aiming, for instance, and the Edenmorn aiming and fending tops. (Though it gives me great sadness that the Edenmorn healing chestpiece randomly loses its sleeves on women.)

And wow do I wish the Cryptlurker aiming chestpiece was used for casters, because there's a red mage glam in my head that just cries out for the augmented version dyed a deep red.

[Iscah]

(Though it gives me great sadness that the Edenmorn healing chestpiece randomly loses its sleeves on women.)

It does make sense since it's based on Gaia's dress in the first place, but it does funny things to the colour balance of the healer version since it permanently has the white triangle of the shirt-front but no sleeves to go with it.

I was more sad about the WHM relic sleeves inexplicably turning three-quarter length and looking awful. I was so excited for detached flared sleeves after seeing the male version previewed. We've got the Eden ones now but they're not the same style.

[Packetdancer]

It does make sense since it's based on Gaia's dress in the first place, but it does funny things to the colour balance of the healer version since it permanently has the white triangle of the shirt-front but no sleeves to go with it.

Yeah; if it didn't have that white triangle bit on the front, the lack of sleeves would annoy me less on the ladies' version. It just makes it look unbalanced, and it gets worse if you try to dye it. But as it stands, I'd prefer the men's version.

[Solarra]

If you think wearing a dress as a male does not make you less of a man, you have a skewed PoV as to what defines one. If you are confused or in opposition to that, I invite you to look up the word "masculinity".

Well, the wedding dress is unlocked already, so if you're trying to hold back change, that ship has already sailed.
S.E. - Just give my male characters Francel's boots please, let my fem roe wear that lovely Ishgardian frock-coat and then remove the gender-locks on other stuff when time permits.

As to the argument about males in skirts/dresses not being manly - If you look at historical costumes, trousers were the exception, not the norm until fairly recently. My country's national dress is a kilt. It is still worn by members of the army on ceremonial occasions and I don't think those guys go home and agonise over whether they've somehow compromised their masculinity by wearing it. Similarly, some members of religious orders still wear robes (does calling it a robe not a dress make it better? It's basically the same garment for both genders)
High-heels for men are out of fashion at the moment but 40-50 years ago, nobody would have found them outrageous at all, and trousers were not generally accepted as suitably feminine wear for women until very, very recently. Girls could not wear them at my school and women were forbidden to wear them at my first job (yes, I'm old).

Taking what is normal in the U.S. today as some sort of gold-standard for dress, is a rather dubious stance; but to then take it even further and argue that standard should be applied to the characters in a Japanese fantasy game with an international audience, seems irrational. If this was some sort of early 20th century U.S./European simulation game you might have a point, but it isn't.

[MilkieTea]

Well, the wedding dress is unlocked already, so if you're trying to hold back change, that ship has already sailed.
S.E. - Just give my male characters Francel's boots please, let my fem roe wear that lovely Ishgardian frock-coat and then remove the gender-locks on other stuff when time permits.

As to the argument about males in skirts/dresses not being manly - If you look at historical costumes, trousers were the exception, not the norm until fairly recently. My country's national dress is a kilt. It is still worn by members of the army on ceremonial occasions and I don't think those guys go home and agonise over whether they've somehow compromised their masculinity by wearing it. Similarly, some members of religious orders still wear robes (does calling it a robe not a dress make it better? It's basically the same garment for both genders)
High-heels for men are out of fashion at the moment but 40-50 years ago, nobody would have found them outrageous at all, and trousers were not generally accepted as suitably feminine wear for women until very, very recently. Girls could not wear them at my school and women were forbidden to wear them at my first job (yes, I'm old).

Taking what is normal in the U.S. today as some sort of gold-standard for dress, is a rather dubious stance; but to then take it even further and argue that standard should be applied to the characters in a Japanese fantasy game with an international audience, seems irrational. If this was some sort of early 20th century U.S./European simulation game you might have a point, but it isn't.

this 1000%. You're playing a game in which people of other cultures play and you want your narrow world view to be considered the norm? And i'll reiterate what i said before, since the two sentiments aren't mutualle exclusive: you're playing a science-fantasy game set in a world where cat girls, bunny girls, and tiger men exist, yet you're worried about applying said narrow world view to it? when men wearing dresses and skirts and women wearing pants would literally NOT impact your gameplay at all.

bear in mind that you is directed at like... a general populace. not *you* specifically, Solarra.

[Theodric]

when men wearing dresses and skirts and women wearing pants would literally NOT impact your gameplay at all.

Well, they do. Time spent appeasing the very small minority of players who want to dress up their male characters in a dress means resources and time taken from other projects that would appeal to a broader audience. I've noticed a common trend, as a gay guy, where only obvious and visible diversity is championed. Many gay men such as myself would be more than happy with more masculine looking glamour and hairstyles being added to the game. As would many straight men and women, I imagine.

I can't help but note that, quite often, it's players who don't even priortise playing a male character as their main who insist on trying to push the 'correct' way for resources for male characters to be distributed. Interestingly enough, some of them are among the first to speak up if there's the slightest inconvenience for female characters...such as the 'issues' with 2B's dress a while back. Not pointing out any names, of course, just an example of something I noticed.

[MilkieTea]

snip

there's fem-only glamours that i use that i absolutely would switch to a male toon for if the opportunity presented itself. i notice a part of your statement that sticks out to me a lot, you failed to acknowledge my other part of my statement: women wearing pants. this is obviously a big issue - tons of "unisex" items that end up disappearing into short-shorts, skirts, or undies, for what is quite literally no reason. and this isn't some "minority" sticking point. i've been mentioning this in almost every post i make on this topic for a reason - both are issues that *should* be addressed.

like i said before, i'm transmasc. gender expression is something i take huge issue with - the ability to express my gender in a way that matches *me*, online, is my ultimate goal, and something that i want for *everyone*, whether that be a hyper-masc bulk-dude with full armor, or someone who wants to dress a hroth or maleroe up in pretty dresses and heels, or someone who wants to dress an elegant viera in chainmail and carry a huge sword, i want everyone to be able to do what feels most comfortable to them, without impeding upon the gameplay of others.

as for your point of diverting resources, i'll bring up something i said before, but probably got burried - i think this would absolutely be a huge project. i don't think it's something they should just get up and do to every old item. but it should become part of their norm going forward, when they release things for the mogstation, or things that may become hot ticket items, or things that are meant to be glams (and i think these are obvious items - ie, moonfire faire items, etc etc) that they should take the extra time and care to adjust the meshes for fem-toons and masc toons. and if ANYTHING, this should definitely be a norm for mogstation items, because the benefits FAR outweigh the cost of manhours in such a case - a lot of people underestimate the playerbase that is very, VERY willing to shell out extra $$ for both sets.

if theyre anything like other games, they make the items at the very LEAST weeks in advance of their release, which means this wouldn't impact the release-schedule of things such as mogstation items or event glams.

as for what my statement *actually* meant, it was moreso a comment on a certain person in here getting up in arms about the perversion of allowing men the opportunity to wear dresses in game, and how it's a slippery slope into further moral-breaking decisions.

on a side note, i can't speak for everyone who plays fem toons, but i have fem-only glamours that if i could wear on a masc frame, i would. i also enjoy the aesthetics of fem toons, and they have brows on every race and clan. /s but for real, i've got like 3 hroth's saved in my game data for if they ever open up the gender restrictions even a *tad* bit more.