How has your mindset changed with regards to other players since your started the ga?

[Vahlnir]

That one, i can explain. Spinning (or kiting, that works too) allows you, if you catch the right timing and feel for it, allows you to delay the auto attack from enemies to a certain degree, it is a tactic frequently (and even necessary) used my melee dps which allows them to kill some stuff, which they normally aren't capable to, but it is a tactic that is somewhat frowned upon, since it feels like abusing a bug.

As a tank, I could see it with large dungeon pulls. But most people just stand there, eat the autos, pop a CD or 2 and dodge the AoEs. I'm one of those people. It is more efficient to take it like a champ and not have any AoEs miss because auto damage is pretty easily mitigated. When it comes to dungeon/raid bosses...it does nothing but upset those playing jobs which require using positionals, so I consider anyone doing so to either be clueless or trolling.

[LisSquid]

(forgot to quote the guy I wanted to quote fml)
You guys probably haven't played WoW in quite a while cause nowadays trade chat is just full of boosting service spam and no casual chatter.

I play Moon Guard and WRA (hold your stones!!). Just logged off during a conversation about.. well things that would get me forum banned if I described it.


FFXIV's community is fine, and I don't really buy that WoW eclipses FFXIV. If anything I'd say they're full of mostly the same players (as patches and content ebb and flow differently, you can comfortably jump between them without falling behind) in NA, possibly EU. It's actually commendable that 14 maintains such a better sense of community and grace with an obvious overlap. The GMs can be heavy handed, and the TOS can seem silly, but it keeps people from establishing a less than tolerable environment to play in.

I'd rather the silent passive aggression in a much-too-long leveling dungeon than the screaming matches that break out on the regular. Or having your key thrown away because someone decided to leave early because the hunter is using a talent they don't like, wasting 6 minutes to tell you exactly why they think that hunter is terrible, their family should be ashamed, and how their dog doesn't love them. It's just normal to do.

People are also way more receptive to advice in this game. You just have to phrase it like advice and not chastisement. Most of the time... there are some true boneheads in this game. I've seen plenty of people give "advice" that is snippy and condescending. It's easy to do because they know what should be done, and it is the knee-jerk reaction to look down on someone who should OBVIOUSLY know to match de-buff markers with the opposite soak marker, right?

Even single pull tanks can be compelled to wall-to-wall if you encourage them the right way. Sometimes all it takes is phrasing it like "I want to test my healing chops. Want to live dangerously?"

[Anhra]

As a tank, I could see it with large dungeon pulls. But most people just stand there, eat the autos, pop a CD or 2 and dodge the AoEs. I'm one of those people. It is more efficient to take it like a champ and not have any AoEs miss because auto damage is pretty easily mitigated. When it comes to dungeon/raid bosses...it does nothing but upset those playing jobs which require using positionals, so I consider anyone doing so to either be clueless or trolling.

I forgot to mention that this kind of approach is normally just used within deep dungeon solo runs, where you have to pull and fight enemies one by one anyway (on floor 150+).

As for the matter of kiting, i noticed that it helps healers dish out more dps skills or give extra room for healing. For me it works quite well and healers barely need to throw out heals on me (only in dungeon content, by the way)

[MilkieTea]

snip

I'd like to emphasize your point with a little basic math.

WoW has an estimated playerbase of 113,085,582, with 7,520,191 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 6.65% of the playerbase being active daily members.
FFXIV has an estimated playerbase of 23,549,199 with 2,237,174 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 9.5% of the playerbase being active daily members.

The link that Forte posted showing visualized data for FFXIV has quite a lot of arbitrary caveats in who it considers to be an "active" member - and showing census data from two different sources that count activity in different ways will ALWAYS lead to discrepancies in how this data is produced. From what it seems, ScreenRant collects its data much like MMO-Population does - how many players have an actively log in per day, whereas the Reddit link collected its data and then chunked it down to players who meet very specific criteria - a lot of criteria which does not take in to account newer players, players who do not care to level and only RP/E RP, etc etc etc.

Additionally, both of the links are quite a bit outdated- with WoW's being before the release of Shadowlands and the Reddit one being pre-patch data. When it comes to statistics like this, anything over like a month is quickly going to become outdated data.

(Edit: I'd like to add that the numbers I'm using come straight from the "Game Data" section of each page, and that I did not analyze the graphs because I um... didn't want to. To be fair they'd only further bolster the point being made: WoW is kind of not doing so great. While it's the number 1 MMO for sheer numbers, it's not the best at keeping and retaining a steady percentage of players)

[Driavna]

I'd like to emphasize your point with a little basic math.

WoW has an estimated playerbase of 113,085,582, with 7,520,191 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 6.65% of the playerbase being active daily members.
FFXIV has an estimated playerbase of 23,549,199 with 2,237,174 of those being the estimated active playerbase. This comes out to 9.5% of the playerbase being active daily members.

The link that Forte posted showing visualized data for FFXIV has quite a lot of arbitrary caveats in who it considers to be an "active" member - and showing census data from two different sources that count activity in different ways will ALWAYS lead to discrepancies in how this data is produced. From what it seems, ScreenRant collects its data much like MMO-Population does - how many players have an actively log in per day, whereas the Reddit link collected its data and then chunked it down to players who meet very specific criteria - a lot of criteria which does not take in to account newer players, players who do not care to level and only RP/E RP, etc etc etc.

Additionally, both of the links are quite a bit outdated- with WoW's being before the release of Shadowlands and the Reddit one being pre-patch data. When it comes to statistics like this, anything over like a month is quickly going to become outdated data.

(Edit: I'd like to add that the numbers I'm using come straight from the "Game Data" section of each page, and that I did not analyze the graphs because I um... didn't want to. To be fair they'd only further bolster the point being made: WoW is kind of not doing so great. While it's the number 1 MMO for sheer numbers, it's not the best at keeping and retaining a steady percentage of players)

Poor retention is something applicable to any online game out there really. After the honeymoon period is over almost everyone is gone.

Anyway, I really don't get why WoW is used constantly as an escape goat. The "at least is not as bad as X" excuse makes no sense to me. (Not saying you are doing that MikieTea).

[MilkieTea]

Poor retention is something applicable to any online game out there really. After the honeymoon period is over almost everyone is gone.

Anyway, I really don't get why WoW is used constantly as an escape goat. The "at least is not as bad as X" excuse makes no sense to me. (Not saying you are doing that MikieTea).

Oh definitely to that first point! Though to be fair, FFXIV's casual pace does a lot to keep players returning past the release of xpacs, and a steady influx of patches with new content doesn't hurt either! Also, to your second point, I think it's because it's a pretty easy scapegoat. There's a lot that Blizzard as a company does that makes WoW not as enjoyable a game as it could be, though it is slowly improving (the recent level squish was a great first step, but not necessarily the best they could've done). It's the biggest MMORPG out there, and its age kind of means that certain mistakes it makes shouldn't be acceptable, so it's used as kind of the butt of a poor argument. This shouldn't be the case, but unfortunately it is.

[Mahoukenshi]

Not really much has changed. Before I took my break in 5.2, I had never a single negative experience (yay me!) during any of my mandatory dungeon/trial runs and in leveling roulette, even if I had effed up the "simplest" choreographical mechanics. This would probably have been different if I had unlocked every optional group content and/or would have played it. Heck, even the majority of my Novice Network time was quite enjoyable. I'm by mmo standards a weirdo, though, and live mostly in my own "micro cosmos" . Most negativity/bittnerness (doesn't matter if "justified" or not) was mostly while browsing this forums; no offense intended.

[Recon1o6]

Back on topic, I've recently noticed a change in my perception of other crafters

Previously I thought fellow omnicrafters like myself were botters, glamoursmiths or tryhards (I'm in the second category because those glams be expensive! also story :3)

Now I have a new category system: Botters, glamoursmiths, gilwhores or lazy

[SturmChurro]

I am so EXHAUSTED with dealing with people now. I just remembered why I just play this game solo, why I never bothered to look for a guild, people. Yeah, I'm venting. I've been running groups in Borzja...

So I had the audacity to try and cluster farm again tonight. This isn't such a great community. They only prove this to me as time goes on.

Probably off-topic, but I'm just venting again. I'd put the details here into the duty finder thread if it was duty finder. Still somewhat relevant to this thread. Read if interested in context, or don't.

Slow going parties for cluster farm. I form one with several people and good Lord what transpires.. I spend a little while on set up, what roles should be played, etc. we agree on one spot. One of the tanks decides to use tank stance on and off, pull far away from the party, blame healers when he dies.. etc. A complete mess. He had killed some of our dps/heals several times doing this. Other tank starts pulling in some random direction, not really doing anything efficiently, but whatever. At least he was bringing them to the party. Apparently when the party was criticizing or trying to help the first tank, this second tank thinks they are criticizing him. I just say lets drop it, "this spot isn't working out" and I say we move somewhere else. The first tank is continuing to argue with the party, but the second tank still thinks everyone is criticizing him. I say "jesus christ" in say, and I guess he took it as me criticizing him along with the party further, and left the party. I had been trying to stay out of it as party lead, I wasn't criticizing anyone. All I was saying prior was the spot wasn't "working out" and to move. It's insane to me.

This isn't the end of it.

I switch to tank, and pull a bit at this different location, but I notice our dps is a bit low, so I offer to switch to dps, and ask the first tank to take over when he gets there. He was already using an essence on his tank, and I wasn't. It was only logical for me to be the one to switch. Apparently, when I asked if he could take over if "I showed him the route", it was taken as me demeaning him - I guess. Because at this point, it looks like he starts to play dumb, and pulls EVERYTHING ELSE. Looks to be trying to wipe the party. I'd guess he was griefing us. At this point, I told the others that were left "I'm done" and just quit out of the instance.

This is what I am talking about with people and this game. This is far from irregular. My God. Unbelievable.

Here we go I see what happened. I just read the chat logs. I had been ignoring the arguing in the chat. The second tank said he had only pulled in a specific zone - I did see him say that and wanted him to go where he was comfortable. The first tank looked to be trying to farm in a whole different way than anyone else in the party was used to, got mad at us, got mad at me for having the party move somewhere else. That looks to be the case. Wow.

[ZedxKayn]

I went from being a (nearly) no DPS healer completely clueless about other people's performance to dreading no dps healers and expecting the worst from DF.