MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[Iscah]

One of the big problems with the MSQ, especially early on, is how much running you do. There is a severe disrespect for the players time. There are so many quests, that are literally 'run for 10 minutes, get one line of dialogue, run back for 10 minutes'. To me, this happens to the point of being insulting. It gets particularly bad early on when you still don't even have enough money to teleport back, which just happened to me last night.

I've been through the early game several times now on different characters, and I don't remember ever being that stuck for money that I had to walk long-distance like that. (Well, except for that time I scraped up all my gil to buy a particular glamour and barely had enough left for a chocobo porter.)

Are you using the porters for cheap travel? Setting your home point and/or preferred location at the location where you're questing, and using Return?

And yeah, the porters do have a longer travel time than teleporting but it's a whole lot better than walking, and you can use that minute to take a quick break or check your inventory or something.

Finally some REAL experience, rather than nostalgia.

So experience is only real when it matches your opinion?

I've been through the game multiple times now, and I won't deny some parts are tedious, but I also know I just didn't notice a lot of it as a new player. Everything was exciting and I was absorbing every bit of information about the plot and world to piece it all together. It's only on replaying it that it's clearer where the plot is going and how long they're taking to get there.

It's a recurrent problem with MSQ (and quest in general) in FFXIV. Gameplay between cutscenes is usually nonexistent till a solo duty, dungeon or trial is unlocked. The last 24m raid related quest all had my doing was going from A to B and use an emote.

I feel like this is an inherent issue with RPGs as a whole genre, if not any game that is story-heavy, and I'm struggling to think of how else it might be expected to go. Any game story has to be set out as cutscenes interspersed with a balanced amount of whatever counts for gameplay, and FFXIV's battle system just doesn't have much to make this interesting. Either you get the story delivered by just moving from cutscene to cutscene, with a few designated points for a big solo fight or dungeon, or you pad it out by inserting tasks like "fight these three monsters in the purple circle" or "let's compete to see who can lure the most bats" or that weird solo duty in 5.2(?) where we got trapped in the Ronkan ruins with the sphinx and the card game. That's where the MSQ drags, in my opinion.

Just make the pc use their linkshell and switch to the cutscene of whoever they needed to talk to talking. SO much is wasted on back and forth porting including gil.

Again this is a personal taste thing perhaps, but the game would feel so empty doing that. If it's already an issue that we don't do anything but watch one cutscene and then another, why lose the last bit of agency and just stand in place as each scene is put in front of you?

Even if it's all cutscenes, having to move through the world and go to the right place is important. It's what makes it a story about a journey that you're on.

Not saying they shouldn’t have MSQ but a lot of the patch stuff is filler. 5.4 for example, besides the closing scenes you aren’t missing much of the overall story if you don’t do it. There’s no reason the limsa stuff couldn’t have been additional sidequest content as at least currently it appears only to add extra context to things rather than be a crucial addition to the story.

The Limsa story is changing the situation of something in the world that will probably be built on in further story. They found a cure for tempering - that's hugely important and not something that can just happen in an optional sidequest. It needs to happen in the MSQ so that the next part of the story can refer back to that previous event. It's the same reasoning why Crystal Tower became required once they wanted to build on those events and have something happen that came after it.

Also, even if things don't seem important at the time, they can be setting up for something in the future. You can't judge how important something was to the story until you've gotten to the end of it.

[SturmChurro]

So experience is only real when it matches your opinion?

I've been through the game multiple times now, and I won't deny some parts are tedious, but I also know I just didn't notice a lot of it as a new player. Everything was exciting and I was absorbing every bit of information about the plot and world to piece it all together. It's only on replaying it that it's clearer where the plot is going and how long they're taking to get there.

How about we look at my quote again:

Finally some REAL experience, rather than nostalgia.

Context matters. I don't have time right now to explain in detail what I mean. I'm tanking a dungeon right now. There are enough clues in place to make a good guess though.

[Iscah]

How about we look at my quote again:

Again, what makes my memory of my first time through the game "nostalgia" and not reporting what I recall of my experience at the time? The fact that I liked it?

I know I liked it because I remember being excited by things as a new player that were kind of disappointing on a replay. If anything that has to be anti-nostalgia.

If you want direct experience I can fish out the epic discussion thread where I kept posting on my experience as a newbie working through the story.

[SturmChurro]

Again, what makes my memory of my first time through the game "nostalgia" and not reporting what I recall of my experience at the time? The fact that I liked it?

I know I liked it because I remember being excited by things as a new player that were kind of disappointing on a replay. If anything that has to be anti-nostalgia.

If you want direct experience I can fish out the epic discussion thread where I kept posting on my experience as a newbie working through the story.

Now here is the real question, was I referring to you specifically in my reply to that post, OR was I speaking in general?

Because.. I've gotta be honest here, I never actually read your post.

Anyway, to me, I fail to see what we are arguing about here! We seem to have a very similar opinion!

I've been through the game multiple times now, and I won't deny some parts are tedious,


I feel like this is an inherent issue with RPGs as a whole genre, if not any game that is story-heavy, and I'm struggling to think of how else it might be expected to go. Any game story has to be set out as cutscenes interspersed with a balanced amount of whatever counts for gameplay, and FFXIV's battle system just doesn't have much to make this interesting.

Maybe I am reading you wrong, but our opinions seem to align, in my opinion! Me? I am just hoping for solutions.

[Kamatsu]

The Limsa story is changing the situation of something in the world that will probably be built on in further story. They found a cure for tempering - that's hugely important and not something that can just happen in an optional sidequest. It needs to happen in the MSQ so that the next part of the story can refer back to that previous event. It's the same reasoning why Crystal Tower became required once they wanted to build on those events and have something happen that came after it.

This is a good example here of how story matters, yet those advocating cutting the story show they don't pay attention to it - so why cater the story to them, those who don't bother with the story at all?

Tempering has been a major aspect & theme throughout the game - Because we're dealing with Primals throughout the story, tempering has been a constant threat & issue, it's the reason that we (WoL & others with the echo) are so vital to fighting Primals. It's also been shown that without a cure the people of the Eorzea are just having to kill all tempered. So a storyline that revolves around an actual cure to tempering is a major big deal that cover's a major problem the alliance & others have had to deal with throughout the course of the game.

Yet to these ppl... "Oh, why are we doing all this nonsense... it should just be a side-story that we can just ignore". Really? A cure/solution to a major problem that Eorzee has faced & dealt with throughout the game's story, something that has been touched on many, many times throughout the MSQ... should just be made a non-essential side-story? Pffft.

[SturmChurro]

This is a good example here of how story matters, yet those advocating cutting the story show they don't pay attention to it - so why cater the story to them, those who don't bother with the story at all?

Tempering has been a major aspect & theme throughout the game - Because we're dealing with Primals throughout the story, tempering has been a constant threat & issue, it's the reason that we (WoL & others with the echo) are so vital to fighting Primals. It's also been shown that without a cure the people of the Eorzea are just having to kill all tempered. So a storyline that revolves around an actual cure to tempering is a major big deal that cover's a major problem the alliance & others have had to deal with throughout the course of the game.

Yet to these ppl... "Oh, why are we doing all this nonsense... it should just be a side-story that we can just ignore". Really? A cure/solution to a major problem that Eorzee has faced & dealt with throughout the game's story, something that has been touched on many, many times throughout the MSQ... should just be made a non-essential side-story? Pffft.

Can you address us, and our actual arguments? Who are "these people" you are referring to?

[Ammokkx]

Can you address us, and our actual arguments? Who are "these people" you are referring to?

I mean he did quote a post that specifically mentioned Vickii's quote.

Not that Vickii has proven themselves to be much of a reliable source of opinion.

[SturmChurro]

I mean he did quote a post that specifically mentioned Vickii's quote.

Not that Vickii has proven themselves to be much of a reliable source of opinion.

I can't address them as I'd like. I'll get banned for slander. I can't even explain with details what I mean, otherwise I'll get banned for slander. I have to put "my opinion", "to me", etc. I can't just talk like a regular person, because I'll get banned for slander. Sorry, just a small vent, I had to backspace what I was gonna post. Same I did with that reply.

I THINK, to me, maybe, there are a lot of strawmen arguments* in this thread. Just my opinion though. That's it.

I don't have the energy to word my way around what I want to say right now. I just want to post about glam. If someone makes a huge reply it'll take me a good.. half a day to edit a post properly.

[Ammokkx]

I can't address them as I'd like. I'll get banned for slander. I can't even explain with details what I mean, otherwise I'll get banned for slander. I have to put "my opinion", "to me", etc. I can't just talk like a regular person, because I'll get banned for slander. Sorry, just a small vent, I had to backspace what I was gonna post. Same I did with that reply.

I THINK, to me, maybe, there are a lot of strawmen arguments* in this thread. Just my opinion though. That's it.

I don't have the energy to word my way around what I want to say right now. I just want to post about glam. If someone makes a huge reply it'll take me a good.. half a day to edit a post properly.

I'm not really defending either side here (even though I've made it clear what stance I take on the grander matter) but you also have to realise that you're not the only person arguing your side of it. The fact of the matter is, these strawmen have appeared in this thread, they're just not you specifically.

A lot of people are arguing the cut to MSQ in bad faith and wanting to make this into a game it isn't.

I'm still of the opinion the only cuts you can make in the MSQ are minor at best and require some workarounds (like the vesper bay tickets) because the plot is pretty tightly packed with arcs you can't really cut out (or, in CT's case, had to be added to the main plot after the fact).

Skips pretty much are the only compromise, to my mind. I agree with the "one free skip" for a new account idea, for what it's worth.

[SturmChurro]

I'm not really defending either side here (even though I've made it clear what stance I take on the grander matter) but you also have to realise that you're not the only person arguing your side of it. The fact of the matter is, these strawmen have appeared in this thread, they're just not you specifically.

A lot of people are arguing the cut to MSQ in bad faith and wanting to make this into a game it isn't.

I'm still of the opinion the only cuts you can make in the MSQ are minor at best and require some workarounds (like the vesper bay tickets) because the plot is pretty tightly packed with arcs you can't really cut out (or, in CT's case, had to be added to the main plot after the fact).

Skips pretty much are the only compromise, to my mind. I agree with the "one free skip" for a new account idea, for what it's worth.

It's just throughout this thread, words seem to be being put into people's mouths (referring to many cases), opinions are assumed.. Like I said in that post, I can't explain it otherwise I will get banned for slander. If there is any kind of accusatory remark, the mods here will ban you. It is VERY difficult to have a proper conversation here. No, I'm not even being paranoid, I've been banned for slander before. I'm just so sick and tired of strawmen arguments, and it probably stems from me still being annoyed at how I was treated in my own thread. Yeah, I am antagonistic sometimes, I need to work on that, however there is a reason for it. I guarantee you I am getting reported constantly, I KNOW one slip up in my wording will result in another ban. I wish people (in general) could have good faith arguments, without assuming one side wants to destroy the game or something.. Actual discourse. Yeah, again, I've been hyperbolic, but that's in response to other posts. I do take it out on people who are having good faith arguments, I'm definitely not perfect.

I am looking for solutions, so that more people can come and enjoy the game, and perhaps SE will decide then this game is worth pouring more resources and time into, and we all can get what we want. No, I do not want to destroy the game, in my view a streamlined new player experience would help the game, and many here think the same way. Why would I, or people here suggest to cut the MSQ in bad faith? I can completely see the argument for optional MSQ, if people want to do the story in order, they should be suggested, by the game to do just that, if they don't they won't want to do it whether they are forced or not.

I'm not necessarily for cuts, I think the content should still be available, rather than removed.

Skips sure, but then you get people arguing about that as well. Also, a skip is a skip, I think people should be able to go back and do story if they want to. I suppose there is new game plus now. Never tried it, I don't know how good it is or isn't.