MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[HyperiusUltima]

If I had to speak on arbitrary roadblocks since that's now a topic of conversation, let's talk about the Hard Mode Titan/Garuda/Ifrit Block that requires the Side Quest. We typically aren't given much reason NOT to progress aside from it being there for...well, probably gear gating I'd imagine when we already have strong catch-up gear. In general something as small as this would help improve flow instead of not giving a reason to do them. If they properly baked this into the story right, we would've had to do them because "Beast Tribes keep doing it again and again" in ARR.

[BlitzAceRush]

I mean while you could be right, they condensed one section that has been complained about for a very long time, nothing else, anywhere else and in addition added more to the MSQ at the same time, so it hasn't really set anything, they've also made no mention about doing it anywhere else. They noted 2.0-.5 has been a problem for some and addressed it, that hardly means they'll do anything else and using your logic of this one instance setting some kind of trend, I guess each of these "streamlines" will also make something optional mandatory as well the "president" has been set.

[GeminiReed]

I mean while you could be right, they condensed one section that has been complained about for a very long time, nothing else, anywhere else and in addition added more to the MSQ at the same time, so it hasn't really set anything, they've also made no mention about doing it anywhere else. They noted 2.0-.5 has been a problem for some and addressed it, that hardly means they'll do anything else and using your logic of this one instance setting some kind of trend, I guess each of these "streamlines" will also make something optional mandatory as well the "president" has been set.

Let's call it metrics myopia if you will. It's what happens when you treat the symptom instead of diagnosing the root cause. They've identified a certain point where their metrics told them a significant amount of subscribers gave up. The question is why did they give up? Did they give up because ARR badly needed a QoL pass or is there a deeper complaint (I have to spend how much time before I can play with my friends?)

Of course I think they missed the mark. Or in my more charitable moods think perhaps they were being conservative. Either way they have a lot more work to do to make it palatable to those that consider story grinds a chore. They can shrug and say we don't need those subs but somebody thought chasing them was important enough to divert developer resources. I'm not convinced they have that freedom.

[BlitzAceRush]

Let's call it metrics myopia if you will. It's what happens when you treat the symptom instead of diagnosing the root cause. They've identified a certain point where their metrics told them a significant amount of subscribers gave up. The question is why did they give up? Did they give up because ARR badly needed a QoL pass or is there a deeper complaint (I have to spend how much time before I can play with my friends?)

Of course I think they missed the mark. Or in my more charitable moods think perhaps they were being conservative. Either way they have a lot more work to do to make it palatable to those that consider story grinds a chore. They can shrug and say we don't need those subs but somebody thought chasing them was important enough to divert developer resources. I'm not convinced they have that freedom.

You say all that, but it took them how long to touch one part of the story? Again a single part that has been complained about since 3.0 dropped, while I personally had no issues with the post ARR stuff, I can see why some would, it was abnormally long compared to how they've done things since.

I'm just not seeing this link between dealing with a single trouble spot equating to them going through the whole MSQ to prune or making it optional, they delt with the sticking out nail so to speak, beyond a near universal trouble area a lot of these complaints are subjective, different people will find different things filler vs not needed vs can be cut, as Theodric stated, he'd be happy if they cut out bonding time with the characters he's not fond of, others would like that to stay and even less bonding time with the characters he likes, some would be happy with the story moving from beat to beat with no downtime, no "filler" others would hate it, they can't please everyone and as the game is doing fine there's little reason to make radical changes.

At the end of the day, the skips cover the ground if someone really doesn't want to play through the MSQ, could they offer it for free? Sure but there's no guarantee all the people who skip would just magically stay after either.

Funny thing is, WoW is doing the opposite now, you HAVE to beat Shadowlands campaign to unlock endgame, so they're now pulling a 14 while people are asking 14 to pull a WoW.

[ReynTime]

How is this game focused on end-game content? How many active players even do endgame? Most just finish the story then go level alt-jobs, farm easy mounts or do interior decorating.
Doing any tier of raid content synced is still a thing that can be done, and it's not much less fun than it was when it was new. Seeing as getting the highest ilvl gear is pointless due ilevel sync, I'm not sure why people who don't raid still care that much for endgame VS past content. Even the casual tome gear's relevance is questionable.

[LaylaTsarra]

I've leveled many characters and the best part of doing it is not having to deal with the end game tome/gear grind. To each their own though.

[Garnix]

IMO, they could at least make ARR skippable for free and add a summary cutscene. A 'The story so far' kind of thing.
Keep the paid skips for the expansions. Eventually a few years later, do the same for HW. Etc.
If they really don't want to make the ARR skip completely free, then simply don't make it available to free trial players.

[Theodric]

I think there's a lot of story elements that could be tweaked to be entirely optional without impacting the overall narrative. In single player RPG's - which FFXIV is often lauded as mimicking within this very thread - the player typically gets to choose which characters they choose to bond with over others. FFXIV has the unfortunate habit of shoving certain characters down the player's throat even if they do not care for them and would rather spend time with other characters who are no less important but get sidelined.

For example, I'd happily ditch any bonding with Alisae and G'raha. I don't care for either of them. If the narrative gave me more opportunities to bond with Hien or Thancred, however, I'd happily embrace them.

Equally, fetch quests have arguably just been replaced with repetitive chores along the lines of teaching children how to be adventurers. Something we've done many times in side quests and the MSQ's alike already. An option to just turn down such errands in favour of allowing the Warrior of Light to be 'strictly business' would be appreciated.

I'd also not be opposed to more dialogue options in general. The French version of the game typically has more nuanced, thoughtful commentary on offer for the Warrior of Light whilst the English localisation increasingly relies on 'sassy' commentary. Maybe there should be an English localisation and an American English localisation. I'd appreciate the former immensely, since there's quite a lot of cultural differences to consider.

[Lauront]

I think there's a lot of story elements that could be tweaked to be entirely optional without impacting the overall narrative. In single player RPG's - which FFXIV is often lauded as mimicking within this very thread - the player typically gets to choose which characters they choose to bond with over others. FFXIV has the unfortunate habit of shoving certain characters down the player's throat even if they do not care for them and would rather spend time with other characters who are no less important but get sidelined.

For example, I'd happily ditch any bonding with Alisae and G'raha. I don't care for either of them. If the narrative gave me more opportunities to bond with Hien or Thancred, however, I'd happily embrace them.

Equally, fetch quests have arguably just been replaced with repetitive chores along the lines of teaching children how to be adventurers. Something we've done many times in side quests and the MSQ's alike already. An option to just turn down such errands in favour of allowing the Warrior of Light to be 'strictly business' would be appreciated.

I'd also not be opposed to more dialogue options in general. The French version of the game typically has more nuanced, thoughtful commentary on offer for the Warrior of Light whilst the English localisation increasingly relies on 'sassy' commentary. Maybe there should be an English localisation and an American English localisation. I'd appreciate the former immensely, since there's quite a lot of cultural differences to consider.

I'd support that. I don't particularly like the English localisation in its current form and often it strips out nuances left in the other versions in favour of a more floral style. There's been several examples of this now for SHB.

[Garnix]

I think there's a lot of story elements that could be tweaked to be entirely optional without impacting the overall narrative. In single player RPG's - which FFXIV is often lauded as mimicking within this very thread - the player typically gets to choose which characters they choose to bond with over others. FFXIV has the unfortunate habit of shoving certain characters down the player's throat even if they do not care for them and would rather spend time with other characters who are no less important but get sidelined.

For example, I'd happily ditch any bonding with Alisae and G'raha. I don't care for either of them. If the narrative gave me more opportunities to bond with Hien or Thancred, however, I'd happily embrace them.

Well, in a lot of single player RPGs, this is true. However, in single player Final Fantasy, it isn't really. Stories and character interactions in Final Fantasy games have always been very linear and rarely ever presented any choice to the player...