Opinions: Should tanks work for aggro?

[Ultimatecalibur]

and any mechanics that bosses would have had are just replaced with auto-attacks

If anything the exact opposite has and will continue to happen. Boss fights have progressively gone more and more from hp% based phased auto-attack rotations with phase based mechanics to tightly scripted timeline based mechanic dances that rely mostly on pattern memorization as each expansion has released.

[DRKoftheAzure]

If anything the exact opposite has and will continue to happen. Boss fights have progressively gone more and more from hp% based phased auto-attack rotations with phase based mechanics to tightly scripted timeline based mechanic dances that rely mostly on pattern memorization as each expansion has released.

Would you put it past the devs to replace that with just stock auto attack damage...?

[Ultimatecalibur]

Would you put it past the devs to replace that with just stock auto attack damage...?

Yes, I can conclude that the devs have no intention making fights less mechanically complex by returning to the stock auto-attack rotations of ARR and HW. My fears are that the tanks' role in future fights will tend more and more towards vestigial as auto attack damage becomes even more meaningless.

[SnowVix]

If anything the exact opposite has and will continue to happen. Boss fights have progressively gone more and more from hp% based phased auto-attack rotations with phase based mechanics to tightly scripted timeline based mechanic dances that rely mostly on pattern memorization as each expansion has released.

trust me, HP-gated mechanics being gone is a good thing, as anyone who has done Haukke hard lately can tell you

Yes, I can conclude that the devs have no intention making fights less mechanically complex by returning to the stock auto-attack rotations of ARR and HW. My fears are that the tanks' role in future fights will tend more and more towards vestigial as auto attack damage becomes even more meaningless.

i'm not sure how you're saying auto attack damage is meaningless when the e8s autos did over 1/8 of a tank's HP (2 autos destroy a TBN, so back of the envelope puts that at 1/8 per), or will chunk a caster

[Ultimatecalibur]

trust me, HP-gated mechanics being gone is a good thing, as anyone who has done Haukke hard lately can tell you

Not saying phased based was good, just that the fight design trends have shifted more towards timeline based (with generous secret hp% thresholds for forcing phase transitions).

Haukke (Hard)'s problem is the same as that of most 2.X content: the ilevel sync is set far to high. Haukke (Hard), Copperbell (Hard) and Pharos Sirius (being tuned for i60) all had problems at release even with characters in i90 gear. Having a max ilevel of i110 just makes things worse.

i'm not sure how you're saying auto attack damage is meaningless when the e8s autos did over 1/8 of a tank's HP (2 autos destroy a TBN, so back of the envelope puts that at 1/8 per), or will chunk a caster

E8S seems to be one of the few exceptions rather than the norm of things. How many other modern fights have respectable auto-attacks/auto-attack rotations?

[ItMe]

E8S seems to be one of the few exceptions rather than the norm of things. How many other modern fights have respectable auto-attacks/auto-attack rotations?

E3S autos popped my TBNs.
Seat of Sacrifice EX did too.
So did Hades Ex thinking about it.
I'm surprised how many bosses have meaty autos to be honest.

[SnowVix]

Not saying phased based was good, just that the fight design trends have shifted more towards timeline based (with generous secret hp% thresholds for forcing phase transitions).

Haukke (Hard)'s problem is the same as that of most 2.X content: the ilevel sync is set far to high. Haukke (Hard), Copperbell (Hard) and Pharos Sirius (being tuned for i60) all had problems at release even with characters in i90 gear. Having a max ilevel of i110 just makes things worse.



E8S seems to be one of the few exceptions rather than the norm of things. How many other modern fights have respectable auto-attacks/auto-attack rotations?

the autos in this tier are definitely still meaty, as i can confirm from getting chunked pretty hard after tank deaths even after switching to Fists of Earth until the tanks were raised

[Ultimatecalibur]

E3S autos popped my TBNs.
Seat of Sacrifice EX did too.
So did Hades Ex thinking about it.
I'm surprised how many bosses have meaty autos to be honest.

Dealing 25% of a tank's mhp in 6s isn't actually that much damage considering that a healer can heal more than that in a single gcd spell. Truly "Meaty" auto-attacks should be expected to require nearly constant healing to counteract.

the autos in this tier are definitely still meaty, as i can confirm from getting chunked pretty hard after tank deaths even after switching to Fists of Earth until the tanks were raised

Tanks have nearly twice the Def/M.Def of the Monk, an inherent 20% damage reduction and between 0% and 10.7% mitigation from Tenacity. A conservative estimate means that an attack only deals about 2/3rds the damage to a tank as it would a dps. Combine that with tanks having 60% more hp than dps and an attack that would kill a dps with 2 hits barely does 40% of a tank's mhp. Fists of the Earth might barely shift a 2 hit kill to a 3 hit kill.