MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[Daniolaut]

I think they should add more to FFXIV, I feel they have already deleted more than enough.

As others have said, if you dont want to play FFXIV, you can buy story skip potions, level jump potions, you can even buy content clears so you wont have to ever play at all.

[Jirah]

at this point just make the game like AFK arena

[Rilifane]

And I would bet that the people who skip through all of CT because the first cutscene seemed boring will also skip through a lot of other cutscenes. And they'd probably skip through it no matter where you put it in the narrative.

The sheer fact that you're required to do it should be enough to make people realise it's probably important to pay attention - and even if they skip the first few bits, they well may have had their interest piqued by the point we're opening up voidgates and fighting the Cloud of Darkness. If they haven't, they probably don't care by the time they hit Shadowbringers either.

CT happens at Lv50. That is just how the story is supposed to go. It also first gets called back to much earlier than Shadowbringers, specifically with Nero's reappearance in post-Heavensward. While the scene is written to work whether the player encountered him in CT or last saw him at the Praetorium, the intent is that you have been through CT already and it better explains why we're willing to trust him at that point.


Edit to add: If it's a concern that "even if they paid attention they will have forgotten by Shadowbringers", that would cause problems in numerous other situations as well - and probably with media in general. Characters and plot points do get brought back later, and while it's understandable that someone who played ARR five years ago might have forgotten a side story, I think I would be concerned for the memory of someone who played the whole game through in a couple of months while paying attention to the story, yet couldn't remember the events of CT at least well enough for things to become clear at the reveal.

You're going from the perspective of an experienced player who knows how the game works for years now and, from what I've read from you, is generally immensly interested in story and lore and wishes to explore everything there is to it.
However, not every new player has the same perspective and you're wrong if you think people are either lore fans from the get go or skip everything anyway and might be playing the wrong game. Most of the new players we got in NN (actual new players, not alt chars mind you) are generally interested in the story and don't skip it but they have a limit and there comes a point when they want to progress aswell. Plus a lot of them thought CT series is mandatory because you simply have to finish more or less all 50 content before you can progress to HW.
They thought it would be same at 60, that the alliance raid series is mandatory again.
Most do watch the cutscenes and generally enjoy it but ARR is still rather lenghty, CT series takes a lot of time aswell. So in the end, many powered through it because as I said... there is a limit. And that's fine, it's human. Not everyone is an absolute story nerd, most seem generally interested in it but they don't put it above all and want to do other things aswell.
This is not something I make up because I secretly hate story and questing, it's something I've observed for many weeks now and we had to remind people day after day that yes, CT cutscenes should be watched even if they don't find it too interesting on it's own or don't see the signifcance yet.

The game doesn't force you to complete side content in order because normal raids and alliance raids are optional side content nobody has to do. Also a lot of side content cross references to other side content and it would make more sense story-wise to everything exactly in order and complete all ARR content before progressing to HW and so on, but they don't force you to. If you're fine with not doing it in order or even not doing something at all, it's your choice. Since CT is tied to ShB, I think it would've been fine to make it a requirement to start ShB. That way people have more time to unlock it at their own leisure and it would make it a little easier for new players because they don't get bombarded with everything at once and have the option to split it.

[Iscah]

You're going from the perspective of an experienced player who knows how the game works for years now and, from what I've read from you, is generally immensly interested in story and lore and wishes to explore everything there is to it.

That's true to a point - I was always interested in pursuing the whole story that was being presented and paying attention to it in case it tied into other things, but I'm not arguing for it to be included at Lv50 "from the perspective of an experienced player" but because I think it needs to be in that place for the sake of a new, story-interested player.

As I previously wrote, it's the intended place in the story and it's an intermediate step in other characters' stories where the next step takes place well before Shadowbringers, particularly for Nero at Lv60. And while it's true that optional stories aren't all forced to be undertaken at their intended points in the story, by essentially promoting CT to be a thread of MSQ, it seems more important to keep it in the correct sequence.

If people are going to assume it unimportant and rush through, they're as likely to do that in their eagerness to get to Shadowbringers as they were to get to Heavensward - with the added frustration that the gameplay is 20 levels below their current point in the story.

But on top of that, for the sake of people who do care about the story, I just think it's necessary for CT to have that breathing space.

It would seem rather rushed for G'raha to make his sacrifice of being shut in the tower just to immediately reappear in the story and be let out not that long after. It seems right for it to be a longer wait.

And I don't think it's critical for the player to work out it's him right away so long as they remember him once they see his face, and I have a hard time believing that people would forget him completely if they paid attention to the story when they first played it.

I would imagine at least part of the problem is due to veteran players telling newbies that post-ARR is awful and they should rush through it to get to Heavensward. I see people advising new players to skip cutscenes because there's nothing of value in them. The mindset is encouraged to dismiss that part of the game, when really the MSQ does a lot of important stuff there. It's just unfortunate that it's padded out.

[Masked-dingus]

If the length of the MSQ were not an issue, Square Enix would not have condensed it. Skips regarded.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

well, story and level skips are mostly there because SE knows people are gonna pay for them, that's it

on the concern of lenght, there's sometimes things i don't understand with the way they chose to ell their story, like, i come to some NPC, talk to me, trigger a cutscene, in wich he tells me to talk to the NPC sitting NEXT TO HIM wich triggers another cutscene... Was it really too hard to make 1 single cutscene during wich both NPC are sying what they have to say ?

i don't know, just sometimes ( for me at least ) the way MSQ is presented feels long and tedious for the sake of being long and tedious

[Reyketi]

"As others have said, if you dont want to play FFXIV, you can buy story skip potions, level jump potions"

This argument looks nice, on a forum, however, to an executive, it most likely doesn't. Again, if the length of the MSQ (allegedly hundreds of hours) weren't a problem, Square Enix would not have condensed it.

Personal preferences are fine, but they aren't always marketable.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[van_arn]

well, story and level skips are mostly there because SE knows people are gonna pay for them, that's it

on the concern of lenght, there's sometimes things i don't understand with the way they chose to ell their story, like, i come to some NPC, talk to me, trigger a cutscene, in wich he tells me to talk to the NPC sitting NEXT TO HIM wich triggers another cutscene... Was it really too hard to make 1 single cutscene during wich both NPC are sying what they have to say ?

i don't know, just sometimes ( for me at least ) the way MSQ is presented feels long and tedious for the sake of being long and tedious

This is an excellent way of showing how deleting steps can improve the experience.

Especially as the msq gets dramatically larger with each expansion, it becomes more and more important to trim the fat. Otherwise you’re going to end up losing people to skips or by quitting entirely.

[Reyketi]

This is an excellent way of showing how deleting steps can improve the experience.

Especially as the msq gets dramatically larger with each expansion, it becomes more and more important to trim the fat. Otherwise you’re going to end up losing people to skips or by quitting entirely.

The latest xpac, skips, and a subscription will cost a new player ~$115.

What will a new player think when they're told they can either play through hundreds of hours of required story just to catch up to their friends/get to the latest content

Or

Pay $115

It's outrageous to ask something like that from the player, and thankfully Square Enix have done trimming.

This trimming, when considered with the expedited MSQ leveling process is a clear sign that they see the length of the MSQ as a burier to entry for new customers.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[DPZ2]

The latest xpac, skips, and a subscription will cost a new player ~$115.

What will a new player think when they're told they can either play through hundreds of hours of required story just to catch up to their friends/get to the latest content

Or

Pay $115

It's outrageous to ask something like that from the player, and thankfully Square Enix have done trimming.

This trimming, when considered with the expedited MSQ leveling process is a clear sign that they see the length of the MSQ as a burier to entry for new customers.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

Want to get to max level in WoW Shadowlands? Pray that you don't choose a class you dislike when you use the Boost you bought for that extra $20-$40 you paid for the higher tiers of the expansion (base is $40, without a Boost).

Why pray you don't dislike your class? Because every class requires you to create another character, and if you suddenly desire to play Hunter at max level, and your initial Boosted character was a Warlock, you'll end up paying an extra $60 each and every time. [Yeah, yeah, it's discounted right now, but so are job skips].

$50 for players who want to skip 5 years of story line to play 1 1/2 years worth of current is a bargain for those who really want to do that.

Personally, if it were my friends I was encouraging to play the game, I'd start an alt and play with them through the story line again. There'll be a good 3+ months of end-game prior to the next expansion, even if you go slow through the story.

[Kes13a]

The latest xpac, skips, and a subscription will cost a new player ~$115.

What will a new player think when they're told they can either play through hundreds of hours of required story just to catch up to their friends/get to the latest content

Or

Pay $115

It's outrageous to ask something like that from the player, and thankfully Square Enix have done trimming.

This trimming, when considered with the expedited MSQ leveling process is a clear sign that they see the length of the MSQ as a burier to entry for new customers.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

you are assuming said new player only wants end game and isnt interested in anything else.

If that is the case, they may have picked the wrong game. unlike WoW for instance, where for the most part there is NO story thread, in FF XIV there is. it goes from your first story quest up to present.

if you are only interest in end game and dont care about the rest, then the price isnt too high since you are negating pretty much the full game. yes, everyone has different goals, but the journey in this game is important, maybe you just arent used to that.