MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[Lukha]

If you're in that much of a rush to get to cap, they sell skip potions and leveling potions to accomplish that. You can even go back and replay the story you missed on your max-level character if you later decide you regret not having any clue why you're running the new expert dungeon or who all these people in your party are.

One of the main draws of FFXIV is that it's strongly story-driven, unlike most other MMOs out there, and diluting that further would both be a disservice to the game's story itself and a waste of resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

[Vickii]

Deciding to make the crystal towers series mandatory also was not good in my opinion. I'm not opposed to raid content etc, but why release the shadowbringers expansion and leave it like that for a year, before retro-actively making it mandatory? If people were that invested in the lore and wanted to know more, the raids were there, the story line was there, and there were plenty of indicators toward its existence. I don't mean to just gripe, I'm glad they did prune the 20 quests out, but adding something that would roughly equate to that amount of quests anyway is not expediting anything. Revisiting the cutting block though, and chopping off the 30'ish other quests that are completely needlessly tacked on there would do wonders.

I think comes down to spoilers

SHB making a big deal about the identity of the exarch for it only to be a minor character that the majority of players didn’t meet. By making those mandatory just before his reveal he’s fresh in everyone’s mind and no one is going to complain they didn’t get the full benefit of the plot because they didn’t do some old level 50 quests.

.

As a general rule I’m actually surprised they don’t just make all alliance raids mandatory. It helps with queues and it’s usually some of their best content that they put a ton of effort in. Most are cleared as easily as a dungeon is.

[WhiteArchmage]

I think comes down to spoilers

SHB making a big deal about the identity of the exarch for it only to be a minor character that the majority of players didn’t meet. By making those mandatory just before his reveal he’s fresh in everyone’s mind and no one is going to complain they didn’t get the full benefit of the plot because they didn’t do some old level 50 quests.

.

As a general rule I’m actually surprised they don’t just make all alliance raids mandatory. It helps with queues and it’s usually some of their best content that they put a ton of effort in. Most are cleared as easily as a dungeon is.

I'll actually be surprised if RtI at least doesn't become mandatory at some point, given that Bozja is locked behind it and there are some references to Ivalice sprinkled through the MSQ. It's also an excuse to keep Matsuno writing scenarios for the game, which I'm REALLY not against.

[TaleraRistain]

I'll actually be surprised if RtI at least doesn't become mandatory at some point, given that Bozja is locked behind it and there are some references to Ivalice sprinkled through the MSQ. It's also an excuse to keep Matsuno writing scenarios for the game, which I'm REALLY not against.

Agreed. I'll take him over Yoko Taro any day. Outside of the two dwarves, the Nier raid story has been a total snorefest since they rely way too much on being familiar with that game instead of building that context into their story. Whereas Matsuno managed to throw in easter egg references but still make a very meaningful story without them.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Agreed. I'll take him over Yoko Taro any day. Outside of the two dwarves, the Nier raid story has been a total snorefest since they rely way too much on being familiar with that game instead of building that context into their story. Whereas Matsuno managed to throw in easter egg references but still make a very meaningful story without them.

It also doesn't help that Yoko Taro tends to wait until the third act to actually tell 80% of the story, and we haven't gotten the third act yet.

[Iscah]

I think comes down to spoilers

SHB making a big deal about the identity of the exarch for it only to be a minor character that the majority of players didn’t meet. By making those mandatory just before his reveal he’s fresh in everyone’s mind and no one is going to complain they didn’t get the full benefit of the plot because they didn’t do some old level 50 quests.

It's not even just so people get that story significance (although that was probably a good enough reason on its own), but because certain events in 5.3 can't chronologically happen without CT happening first. Before that point, it helped your story comprehension but it wasn't actually necessary.

Also you don't do it "just before the reveal" unless you were one of the people who had previously reached 5.3 without playing CT. For new players, CT is now required at its intended point in the story in post-ARR.

[Rilifane]

For new players, CT is now required at its intended point in the story in post-ARR.

And the requirement couldn't have been placed more poorly in my opinion.
At the point where new players notice they need to complete the full CT series, they are a few quests away from Ishgard. Although they condensed the post-ARR story quite a bit, the players clicked their way through over 70 quests only to be stopped last second by a mandatory three part alliance raid.
I would bet my last shirt that most of them will happily skip through all the cut scenes because they just want to start with the HW story. The CT series doesn't start with anything that makes it seem particulary important in the grand scheme of things either. By the time they reach ShB, most will have already forgotten what happened, if they even watched the cutscenes and paid attention to what this is about.

[Iscah]

I would bet my last shirt that most of them will happily skip through all the cut scenes because they just want to start with the HW story. The CT series doesn't start with anything that makes it seem particulary important in the grand scheme of things either. By the time they reach ShB, most will have already forgotten what happened, if they even watched the cutscenes and paid attention to what this is about.

And I would bet that the people who skip through all of CT because the first cutscene seemed boring will also skip through a lot of other cutscenes. And they'd probably skip through it no matter where you put it in the narrative.

The sheer fact that you're required to do it should be enough to make people realise it's probably important to pay attention - and even if they skip the first few bits, they well may have had their interest piqued by the point we're opening up voidgates and fighting the Cloud of Darkness. If they haven't, they probably don't care by the time they hit Shadowbringers either.

CT happens at Lv50. That is just how the story is supposed to go. It also first gets called back to much earlier than Shadowbringers, specifically with Nero's reappearance in post-Heavensward. While the scene is written to work whether the player encountered him in CT or last saw him at the Praetorium, the intent is that you have been through CT already and it better explains why we're willing to trust him at that point.


Edit to add: If it's a concern that "even if they paid attention they will have forgotten by Shadowbringers", that would cause problems in numerous other situations as well - and probably with media in general. Characters and plot points do get brought back later, and while it's understandable that someone who played ARR five years ago might have forgotten a side story, I think I would be concerned for the memory of someone who played the whole game through in a couple of months while paying attention to the story, yet couldn't remember the events of CT at least well enough for things to become clear at the reveal.

[Rilifane]

And I would bet that the people who skip through all of CT because the first cutscene seemed boring will also skip through a lot of other cutscenes. And they'd probably skip through it no matter where you put it in the narrative.

The sheer fact that you're required to do it should be enough to make people realise it's probably important to pay attention - and even if they skip the first few bits, they well may have had their interest piqued by the point we're opening up voidgates and fighting the Cloud of Darkness. If they haven't, they probably don't care by the time they hit Shadowbringers either.

CT happens at Lv50. That is just how the story is supposed to go. It also first gets called back to much earlier than Shadowbringers, specifically with Nero's reappearance in post-Heavensward. While the scene is written to work whether the player encountered him in CT or last saw him at the Praetorium, the intent is that you have been through CT already and it better explains why we're willing to trust him at that point.


Edit to add: If it's a concern that "even if they paid attention they will have forgotten by Shadowbringers", that would cause problems in numerous other situations as well - and probably with media in general. Characters and plot points do get brought back later, and while it's understandable that someone who played ARR five years ago might have forgotten a side story, I think I would be concerned for the memory of someone who played the whole game through in a couple of months while paying attention to the story, yet couldn't remember the events of CT at least well enough for things to become clear at the reveal.

You're going from the perspective of an experienced player who knows how the game works for years now and, from what I've read from you, is generally immensly interested in story and lore and wishes to explore everything there is to it.
However, not every new player has the same perspective and you're wrong if you think people are either lore fans from the get go or skip everything anyway and might be playing the wrong game. Most of the new players we got in NN (actual new players, not alt chars mind you) are generally interested in the story and don't skip it but they have a limit and there comes a point when they want to progress aswell. Plus a lot of them thought CT series is mandatory because you simply have to finish more or less all 50 content before you can progress to HW.
They thought it would be same at 60, that the alliance raid series is mandatory again.
Most do watch the cutscenes and generally enjoy it but ARR is still rather lenghty, CT series takes a lot of time aswell. So in the end, many powered through it because as I said... there is a limit. And that's fine, it's human. Not everyone is an absolute story nerd, most seem generally interested in it but they don't put it above all and want to do other things aswell.
This is not something I make up because I secretly hate story and questing, it's something I've observed for many weeks now and we had to remind people day after day that yes, CT cutscenes should be watched even if they don't find it too interesting on it's own or don't see the signifcance yet.

The game doesn't force you to complete side content in order because normal raids and alliance raids are optional side content nobody has to do. Also a lot of side content cross references to other side content and it would make more sense story-wise to everything exactly in order and complete all ARR content before progressing to HW and so on, but they don't force you to. If you're fine with not doing it in order or even not doing something at all, it's your choice. Since CT is tied to ShB, I think it would've been fine to make it a requirement to start ShB. That way people have more time to unlock it at their own leisure and it would make it a little easier for new players because they don't get bombarded with everything at once and have the option to split it.

[Packetdancer]

I think comes down to <spoilers>

It's more than just that, though. (More spoilers, this time all the way through 5.3.)

The ShB storyline actually will acknowledge if you haven't met G'raha Tia yet from your standpoint, but to explain some of his motives and reactions he does need to know and have worked with the Warrior of Light at some point beforehand in his personal timeline. So they wrote the dialogue there as though you hadn't met him yet.

However, the 5.3 MSQ ends with bringing G'raha Tia home. For the sake of the writers' sanity (and Timeline Shenanigans in general), that means you need to have met him before that happens (and he needs to already be within the Tower), which means you need to have gone through those alliance raids and completed that storyline before that part of the story occurs. Trying to make divergent stories for people who never did those raids would probably have been a maddening process.

That's almost certainly why it's a requirement to have finished the Crystal Tower raids to even start the 5.3 portion of the MSQ, even if you had gotten to 5.2 endgame without ever doing those alliance raids.

I suspect adding them as an MSQ requirement on the way to Heavensward is just a way of slipping it in as content you'll do when it's at least somewhat level-appropriate.