Patch 5.4 Trailer, Predictions, and Hints

[Iscah]

Repeating a question that you seem to have missed the first time because it went up while you were in the middle of writing a post.

But its not an all or nothing deal. It was explicitly stated that 1 more rejoining will put enough aether into the source to awaken Zodiark.

Where was this explicitly stated?

[Kesey]

Repeating a question that you seem to have missed the first time because it went up while you were in the middle of writing a post.



Where was this explicitly stated?

This is implicitly stated by the Ascians in ARR. If they can accomplish 1 more rejoining with 1 more calamity, they will be able to free Zodiark. This why the plot constantly has us stopping their 8th calamity plans. First with the ultima weapon. Then with their meddling with the dragonsong war. Then giving Nidhog's eyes to summon Shinryu to complicate the liberation of Ala Mhigo. Then the black rose set up with the first's flood of light. Then Elidibus and his warriors of light. Now onto Fandaniel and his towers.

[Iscah]

This is implicitly stated by the Ascians in ARR.

Implicitly is not explicitly - by definition it is the opposite.

You cannot claim it to be explicitly stated unless they have outright said it will happen, and to my knowledge, they have not.

And as I wrote the first time I asked, the Ascians' plans in ARR seem off compared to everything that has happened since.

I don't know if the quotes in ARR are re-interpretable or not, but I don't think there's been talk of Zodiark's imminent awakening since we started talking about shards and rejoinings.

And again, if not stopping the Eighth Calamity will directly allow Zodiark's revival, that's a stake worth mentioning above and beyond just preventing earthly destruction in the Source. Why the focus on the post-apocalypse being "man fighting his fellow man" as the worst thing that happened if the dark god is unleashed?

[Kesey]

Implicitly is not explicitly - by definition it is the opposite.

You cannot claim it to be explicitly stated unless they have outright said it will happen, and to my knowledge, they have not.

And as I wrote the first time I asked, the Ascians' plans in ARR seem off compared to everything that has happened since.

I don't know if the quotes in ARR are re-interpretable or not, but I don't think there's been talk of Zodiark's imminent awakening since we started talking about shards and rejoinings.

And again, if not stopping the Eighth Calamity will directly allow Zodiark's revival, that's a stake worth mentioning above and beyond just preventing earthly destruction in the Source. Why the focus on the post-apocalypse being "man fighting his fellow man" as the worst thing that happened if the dark god is unleashed?

Fine I'm wrong. But if Zodiark's imminent awakening isn't in the cards, why don't the Ascians--who live forever--just wait for the WOL to die and then continue onward and outwards? Why should Emet even tip his hand in Shadowbringers, bring us closer to the revelations needed and hope to destroy us unless the thing he desired most--summoning Zodiark to resurrect his old society--was so close? Why didn't Lahabrea not wait after the Ultima weapon was destroyed so he could continue his work unabated?

So for all the work you did to try and cut down my theory, in a theory thread in a lore section of a forum, all because evidence is implicit instead of explicit. But hey lets delegitimize my theory because the evidence is implicit and requires one more step to read between the lines.

All the Ascian villains act desperately because they are so close to getting that rejoining, its one more step and they get everything they ever wanted. Whether Zodiark restores Ancient civilization or just destroys the world. There ARR plan isn't off, its on target. The only difference between now and then is the level of detail. The urgency hasn't stopped, which is why they haven't stopped.

[Iscah]

implicit

If you alone can recognise the "implicit" facts of the story through deep analysis, then either the writers did a poor job of implying it or you're seeing things that they didn't intend to imply.

For An Unpromised Tomorrow, we had an entire discussion about the story when it was first released and I don't think anyone even raised the possibility of it meaning they'd be abandoning their world for a new one. Reading it again now, I still can't see anything to imply that.

It might be within the bounds of speculation or plausibility, but it's certainly not the only possibility or stated in a way that you must conclude that is the intended outcome.

the narrator says "And so our journey begins anew," but again that just says they took that journey explicitly and implicitly doesn't say the location.

Here's some implicit location-setting for you, then:

“Tell me, child of man. What dost thou see at dream’s end?”

“I see...”

In my mind’s eye, I glimpsed a world where the Eighth Umbral Calamity had never come to pass, where Eorzea’s champion bestrode the realm, unbroken. But just as suddenly, I saw that this was G’raha Tia’s future, and not ours. Yet the skills we had honed to make that dream a reality were still ours to employ... Another image flashed before me.

“I see a world pulled back from the brink.”

This time, Midgardsormr’s booming laughter was unmistakable.

“Very well. Under my protection shalt thou and thine rebuild, gaining newfound knowledge and the wisdom to wield it. Thus shall the children of man usher in a new Astral Era.”

They are going to pull their world back from the brink, not abandon it. They are going to rebuild.

There is nothing there to imply they are imagining the restoration of some other broken world instead of the one they're already in.

Additionally, there is no reason to assume that Midgardsormr knows anything useful about space travel, given that he apparently just flew from one world to another with no need for a spacecraft.

(On a grammar note, I'm also not certain that you can "implicitly not say" something. If something is implicit it is inherently unsaid.)

Edit to add: Further on picky grammar/word use, while I may be wrong, I would not call the statement that they "began their journey anew" an explicit statement. It is clearly a metaphorical one, and I don't think you use "explicitly" in conjunction with that. If someone didn't understand it was a metaphor and asked the author about it, they might need to explicitly state that the characters are not actually travelling somewhere else.

Fine I'm wrong. But if Zodiark's imminent awakening isn't in the cards, why don't the Ascians--who live forever--just wait for the WOL to die and then continue onward and outwards? Why should Emet even tip his hand in Shadowbringers, bring us closer to the revelations needed and hope to destroy us unless the thing he desired most--summoning Zodiark to resurrect his old society--was so close? Why didn't Lahabrea not wait after the Ultima weapon was destroyed so he could continue his work unabated?

I don't recall Lahabrea wanting the Ultima Weapon destroyed. He wanted to wake up the Heart of Sabik at its core and then tried to use it to destroy us.

As for Emet-Selch, I don't have the quote but I'm sure at one point he did talk about being immortal and failure being a minor setback so they just need to wait around for their next eventual chance to try again. In any case, the really important thing for him in the First right now is to get it back to the brink of a flood state again, ready to rejoin, and he seems to think that letting the WoL turn into a sin eater is what will get it there. That's what he's expecting to happen, and he's rather surprised and disappointed that we didn't.

Also, I don't see why he would only keep trying if he thought he was close to achieving the final rejoining. Even if it's only the eighth of thirteen, they still have one half of the trigger ready (Black Rose ready to unleash on the Source) and are close to achieving the other (re-priming the First). Letting it slip away might not be a permanent loss but it's still a setback and a waste of the work they put into getting there - work that has already cost the lives of several of the group, at that. If he thinks he can salvage it, and in a plan that kills the WoL no less, why wouldn't he try?

So for all the work you did to try and cut down my theory, in a theory thread in a lore section of a forum, all because evidence is implicit instead of explicit. But hey lets delegitimize my theory because the evidence is implicit and requires one more step to read between the lines.

Welcome to the lore forum. I "cut down your theory" because you were claiming you had explicit proof when you didn't, and I still haven't seen undeniable implicit proof either.

As I wrote in another topic not long ago, if I have it wrong, I want to know so I can correct my own understanding. But I'm not being shown proof of that.

If anything, the fact you're claiming that An Unpromised Future "implicitly" ends with them building a spaceship and leaving the planet, that makes me very sceptical of anything else you claim is implicitly stated because in that example, it simply isn't.

And I'm wary of relying on proof based on the Ascians' portrayed motives in ARR, not because I want to prove you wrong or deny what you claim, but because I've already observed that it seems at odds with the current situation. When I rewatch scenes from ARR it simply doesn't add up with what we now know they were supposedly working towards all along. They talk like they're allied to the Void in a simple dichotomy of the human world watched over by Hydaelyn versus the dark world of the Void and an aim to return all to Darkness. The BLM quests seem to lean into this apparently-abandoned version of the cosmology as well.